| 21 Nov 2025 |
 Sofie 🏳️⚧️ (she/her) | ah, yea | 17:45:11 |
| Sofie 🏳️⚧️ (she/her) | I mean, there are some issues but they are fixed already
I also once found an binary that every time when u download it, has a different hash | 17:46:02 |
 Charles | i.e. reproducible build environments are necessary but not sufficient to achieve Reproducible Builds | 17:46:08 |
| Sofie 🏳️⚧️ (she/her) | is this more like, clangs job now? | 17:46:33 |
| Sofie 🏳️⚧️ (she/her) | like | 17:46:41 |
| Sofie 🏳️⚧️ (she/her) | we have the environment | 17:46:45 |
| Charles | no, it's the job of every piece of software involved in producing the artifacts | 17:46:54 |
| Sofie 🏳️⚧️ (she/her) | ah | 17:47:03 |
| Charles | source code, compilers, build scripts, etc; things of that nature | 17:47:03 |
| Sofie 🏳️⚧️ (she/her) | what would be the most finniky part currently? | 17:47:25 |
| Charles | all a nix implementation can do is ensure that the build environment is bit-exact reproducible, not the output artifacts from any given build | 17:47:34 |
| Charles | bitching at every upstream to write deterministic code for generating outputs of any form | 17:48:00 |
| Sofie 🏳️⚧️ (she/her) | ooo, 3? | 17:48:26 |
| Charles | getting the current date? not reproducible. iterating a hashmap? not reproducible. etc. | 17:48:39 |
 piegames | (btw we do have governance since this summer) | 17:49:45 |
 522 it/its ⛯ΘΔ | running builds in an environment that always does stuff like iterate files in alphabetical order would at least work around reproducibility issues | 17:51:00 |
| Sofie 🏳️⚧️ (she/her) | https://medium.com/the-toit-take/hash-maps-that-dont-hate-you-1a96150b492a at least hash maps could be done with this but idk | 17:51:11 |
| Sofie 🏳️⚧️ (she/her) | yea | 17:51:22 |
| Sofie 🏳️⚧️ (she/her) | oooo | 17:51:33 |
| Sofie 🏳️⚧️ (she/her) | nice | 17:51:35 |
| Charles | the point is that this is a problem in general, sure you can solve it in specific cases, but you'd need to convince every upstream to fix this, which is not gonna happen | 17:51:45 |
| Sofie 🏳️⚧️ (she/her) | has aux gotten their team setup already? | 17:51:52 |
| 522 it/its ⛯ΘΔ | i mean you can freely use hashmaps that don't maintain insertion order, you just need to not leak that ordering to the end binary | 17:52:03 |
| Charles | yeah you just need to convince every piece of software in your build environment to do this, which is not gonna happen | 17:52:15 |
| Sofie 🏳️⚧️ (she/her) | I mean, yea | 17:52:15 |
 K900 | r11y is already being actively worked on in nixpkgs | 17:52:16 |
| K900 | And massively improving | 17:52:25 |
| Sofie 🏳️⚧️ (she/her) | nice | 17:52:33 |
| 522 it/its ⛯ΘΔ | no i mean disorderfs exists, and you can choose the build path in nix, no? you can run the build in a disorderfs (which is just FUSE) directory set to sort dirents | 17:53:44 |
| Sofie 🏳️⚧️ (she/her) | can't you do this for every nix build? implement in lix or something | 17:54:16 |
