| 21 Oct 2025 |
 emily | so I'd assume Lix won't adopt the Nix change | 20:25:35 |
 Jassuko | I hope Nix gets properly stable & supported Nix <-> JSON implementation some day. -_- | 20:34:29 |
| Jassuko | I’d so much prefer writing Nix over JSON any day, but last time I checked (way over a year ago) that was not supported use case. | 20:36:16 |
 mra | oh, is a new serialization for derivations being considered? | 20:36:35 |
| Jassuko | JSON is (very) far from perfect as a serialization format as soon as you have more than one implementation having to handle de-serialization. Especially so, if it’s used in anything where security matters, or encryption is involved. 😅 | 20:39:36 |
| mra | Jassuko: yeah, makes sense. i've been wondering if we should adopt a new serialization for derivations in the Guix daemon when we get around to rewriting it | 20:41:05 |
| Jassuko | If I had to define a security critical JSON serialization now, I’d write the normative spec around SQLite JSON serialization with proper boundary tests included. That one is available to use on any platform and has easy enough interfaces to all possible languages… so if someone wants to implement their thing, they could just use SQLite library to validate IO whenever JSON is involved. :p | 20:45:50 |
 raitobezarius | none are stable to us for now | 21:04:05 |
| raitobezarius | ATerms are obviously stable, we will try hard not to change them | 21:04:16 |
| raitobezarius | but we might not always expose ATerms in the future | 21:04:20 |
| raitobezarius | do not rely on the ATerm, it's an impl detail for now | 21:04:27 |
| 22 Oct 2025 |
 lillecarl | Why not?! I depend on builtins.fromJSON and builtins.toJSON for several usecases | 00:57:03 |
 niklaskorz | looking into setting up gerrit myself right now so the afnix infra repo is a real gold mine 👀 | 10:09:31 |
| niklaskorz | (thanks!) | 10:09:55 |
|  @abaris99f:matrix.org removed their profile picture. | 10:35:41 |
| @abaris99f:matrix.org removed their display name JannikH (Abaris). | 10:35:53 |
| @abaris99f:matrix.org left the room. | 10:35:56 |
 Guilherme Espada | I'm confused as to why https://docs.lix.systems/manual/lix/nightly/release-notes/ doesn't seem to include the 2.93 release notes | 10:36:42 |
 aloisw | Because it's wildly out of date and was generated before the release. | 15:36:55 |
 helle (just a stray cat girl) | I've considered figuring out some infrastructure for it, but there are higher priority fixes to the docs access situation | 15:52:17 |
|  mxcurly joined the room. | 18:15:18 |
| Jassuko | In reply to @lillecarl:matrix.org
Why not?! I depend on builtins.fromJSON and builtins.toJSON for several usecases Ohh, so those ended up being included in the builtins at some point? Nice.
Last time I checked (few years ago) people were too concerned about possible serialization issues and having to maintain compatibility over long time, so JSON was not supported as a builtin. | 20:31:57 |
 ekler | fromJSON has existed since nix 1.8 (2014) and toJSON is from 1.7 (2013) | 20:46:59 |
| ekler | But that's just for arbitrary data and chokes sometimes e.g. functions | 20:49:56 |
| Jassuko | Wtf. Why I didn’t find a usable JSON thing when I needed it, then. :o | 21:16:43 |
| lillecarl | Maybe your memory is mixing JSON and YAML. YAML is still IFD | 21:24:54 |
 rosssmyth | They were talking about derivation serialization, which is different from Nix expression serialization. You can view derivation serialization if you run something like nix derivation show nixpkgs#hello (for JSON), while the usual serialization of derivation is to ATerm, a weird old format you can view with something like nix eval nixpkgs#hello.drvPath | xargs cat. These are the "*.drv" files references sometimes. | 21:44:57 |
| rosssmyth | * They were talking about derivation serialization, which is different from Nix expression serialization. You can view derivation serialization if you run something like nix derivation show nixpkgs#hello (for JSON), while the usual serialization of derivation is to ATerm, a weird old format you can view with something like nix eval nixpkgs#hello.drvPath | xargs cat. These are the "*.drv" files referenced sometimes. | 21:45:22 |
| 23 Oct 2025 |
| emily | "I’d so much prefer writing Nix over JSON any day, but last time I checked (way over a year ago) that was not supported use case." sounds like just fromJSON/toJSON to me? | 00:19:58 |
| emily | a stable JSON serialization format for Nix derivations would not help with writing Nix over JSON | 00:20:12 |
