| 11 Mar 2024 |
 Shalok Shalom | In reply to @joepie91:pixie.town
to a lot of people in tech especially, the concept of "defense contractors" is an abstract concept at best. "they help us stay safe, right? and they fund a lot of good research" is a common response to concerns about them. likewise, as soon as a company calls itself a tech company, to many tech folks it is automatically exempt from moral consideration, because "this is tech, not politics, there's good and bad uses for every technology" etc.; the harsh reality is that a lot of people in tech simply do not share the premise that arms dealers are problematic, and do not know much (and don't want to know much) about what arms dealers actually do. in practice that's going to mean a lot of "surely it can't be that bad, you must be overreacting" responses when that worldview is threatened by claims of things being Bad, Actually I think thats very much an US thing, then | 21:59:05 |
 @arianvp:matrix.org | by the way I'm in the camp i'm conflicted but not opposed to Anduril associating itself with NixOS. I have no problems with them using and contributing to nixos. Neither to them donating. However I have some reservations actively promoting them on e.g. a conference. I'm happy to proofread anything to give my perspective. If it convinced me it might have high chances convincing others too | 21:59:32 |
 joepie91 🏳️🌈 | it's definitely more prevalent in the US, but that does not mean that it is not going to be a problem in terms of public response | 21:59:50 |
| Shalok Shalom | Particulary in todays day and age, with the war in Ukraine and the ethical cleansing in Gaza, should that topic be not that opaque. | 22:00:27 |
| joepie91 🏳️🌈 | it shouldn't, but it unfortunately is | 22:01:12 |
| Shalok Shalom | I dont know the polls around tech people, but even the public in the US sees these two conflicts critical, also in terms of arms contractors. | 22:01:10 |
| joepie91 🏳️🌈 | there are decades of propaganda that we're effectively having to deal with, after all | 22:01:30 |
| Shalok Shalom | In reply to @joepie91:pixie.town
it's definitely more prevalent in the US, but that does not mean that it is not going to be a problem in terms of public response Yeah, you are absolutely right. I am probably used to the different mindset in Europe. | 22:01:38 |
| @arianvp:matrix.org | I was quite pacifistic before the war in Ukraine. Not anymore since that started. I think many people changed their mind on that in Europe since the start of the war | 22:02:40 |
| Shalok Shalom | And considering the tech scene is usually strongly connected with the protection of minorities, I assumed that expands to critical thinking about the arms industry. (Since those fields are absolutely connected here) | 22:02:46 |
| joepie91 🏳️🌈 | I would definitely not say that the tech scene is strongly connected with protecting minorities. that is only really true in a limited set of communities | 22:03:18 |
| Shalok Shalom | In reply to @arianvp:matrix.org
I was quite pacifistic before the war in Ukraine. Not anymore since that started. I think many people changed their mind on that in Europe since the start of the war Yeah, since its personal now. You also see that with the refugees. Once people feel in danger, they quickly change their mind. | 22:03:22 |
| joepie91 🏳️🌈 | the tech world as a whole is still a minefield | 22:03:29 |
| Shalok Shalom | See the polls in Finnland to the application for the NATO. | 22:03:42 |
 @patka_123:matrix.org | There are a lot of good opinions in this thread: https://discourse.nixos.org/t/should-organizations-relating-to-the-defense-sector-being-able-to-sponsor-nixos/41252 | 22:03:56 |
|  @networkexception:chat.upi.li joined the room. | 22:03:59 |
| Shalok Shalom | Turned from like 40% or less for it, into the opposite within weeks. | 22:04:03 |
 @janik0:matrix.org | joepie91 🏳️🌈Shalok Shalom and everyone else please stay on topic | 22:04:28 |
| Shalok Shalom | yep | 22:04:39 |
| joepie91 🏳️🌈 | the way we ended up on this topic to begin with, was the question of who to direct a signatory letter at - directing it at the general public as an open letter is essentially banking on a wide enough understanding and recognition of the problem that this will not backfire | 22:07:39 |
| Shalok Shalom | Do we have knowledge of past actions of this company, that we could use as evidenceß | 22:08:36 |
| Shalok Shalom | * Do we have knowledge of past actions of this company, that we could use as evidence? | 22:08:42 |
| joepie91 🏳️🌈 | that seems like a good starting point, to collect such resources in the pad | 22:09:49 |
| Shalok Shalom | Ideally, we would focus on that, and not just them being a company that sells weapons.
But that they had concretely caused certain damage, that we could showcase. | 22:09:57 |
| Shalok Shalom | Eventually graphically. | 22:10:06 |
| Shalok Shalom | Including the background of the people involved in, and their actions. Particulary the founder. (Without letting it look, as if we are running a smear campaign) | 22:11:15 |
| Shalok Shalom | Do they limit themselves to whom they deliver? Maybe we can get a list of clients. | 22:12:16 |
 @phileas:asra.gr | https://www.wired.com/story/palmer-luckey-anduril-border-wall/ | 22:13:57 |
| @phileas:asra.gr | NixOS tries to be inclusive, I suppose people from Mexico included, perhaps having a sponsor who exists simply because there is technology needed for segregating Mexico from the US is perhaps not the most inclusive thing you can do. | 22:15:21 |
| @phileas:asra.gr | I find it quite upsetting that apparently Anduril employees are proactively defending Anduril, whilst not making it obvious they're working for them. | 22:16:26 |
