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| 30 Sep 2024 |
 @ronnypfannschmidt:matrix.org | anyone aware of a "simple"/"easy" alternative to deploy-rs that includes some type of rollback or at least ensuring ssh/access stays available for remote deploys
i want to deploy system and home profliles to my homeserver without bricking it in case of issues, and deploy-rs ended up with a mess for that more regular than for my liking (in particular thanks to nextcloud updates being a big adventure) | 08:20:01 |
 K900 | That's not really a deploy-rs problem though | 08:30:09 |
| K900 | Nextcloud just doesn't do state rollbacks | 08:30:14 |
| @ronnypfannschmidt:matrix.org | i agree that the issue there isn't the fault of deploy-rs - but the default behavior of deploy-rs elevates the issues nextcloud creates to much worse as any rollback after migrate ends with a sad system | 08:39:12 |
| K900 | That's not something deploy-rs is in control of | 08:39:38 |
| K900 | If you're looking for a tool that will let you roll back your entire system EXCEPT nextcloud, that's not a tool problem | 08:39:56 |
| K900 | NixOS just doesn't work that way | 08:39:59 |
| @ronnypfannschmidt:matrix.org | i beleive theres a missunderstanding - i want to remove the nextcloudbricking - that doesnt imply partial rollback, it would already be enough to defer the migrations until its clear that rollback for other reasons isnt needed
| 08:43:19 |
| @ronnypfannschmidt:matrix.org | its a problem of nixos as a whole tho that no more detailed concept of state management and migrations exist, as operation of services kind of needs to manage their state | 08:45:25 |
| K900 | In reply to@ronnypfannschmidt:matrix.org
i beleive theres a missunderstanding - i want to remove the nextcloudbricking - that doesnt imply partial rollback, it would already be enough to defer the migrations until its clear that rollback for other reasons isnt needed
No tool can do that | 08:51:19 |
| K900 | Because Nextcloud migrations run on system activation | 08:51:27 |
| @ronnypfannschmidt:matrix.org | the need to have those run on activation is pretty much the failure point of the system - since state-transformation on activation ensures that rollback turns from something securely possible into something that "good luck"
some approaches for enabling that are providing multiple versions and deciding which to start based on migration state or having upgrade steps of packages that are more migration aware and being able to run with older/newer versions to some extend (django/alembic based applications have those + for some migrations even schema rollback)
in the ideal world software is engineered migration aware and supports both running on newer schema as well as having migrations split so that older versions can be broken at a later point in time
reality is often more somber however | 09:12:26 |
| @ronnypfannschmidt:matrix.org | a nice intermediate would be prefer putting a deployment into maintenance mode as opposed to running migrations eagerly and breaking rollback | 09:13:15 |
 Jane Jasperous | there is not that system.stateVersion to avoid database and schema migrations between releases? | 09:55:21 |
| K900 | There isn't for forward migrations | 09:55:48 |
| K900 | And I feel like you're still missing the most important point here | 09:55:57 |
| K900 | Which is that this is just how NixOS works | 09:56:04 |
| K900 | No tool can work around this problem | 09:56:10 |
| K900 | It needs to be solved at NixOS level | 09:56:13 |
| Jane Jasperous | yep i see:
"Note that this generally only affects applications that can’t upgrade their data automatically - applications and services supporting automatic migrations will remain on latest versions when you upgrade." | 09:56:17 |
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