| 13 Mar 2024 |
 K. Werty | In reply to @joepie91:pixie.town
and so a more helpful conversation would be what to do next Maybe, a survey of the folks that signed the letter, asking something along the lines of "is this a big enough deal to you to stop contributing to the project and/or maintaining your contributions". I suspect the answer is "yes" for a significant number of people, which may help to quantify the cost of the anduril decision. | 19:00:49 |
 piegames | No, you are disrupting the conversation with bad faith arguments and concern trolling. And this is a common pattern I see in your interactions, and this has been going on for months now | 19:02:33 |
 patka | It shouldn't become a numbers game, a new petition will just water everything down. The current people walking away that signed already will completely wreck everything (I mean in the sense that stuff will break, not actively destroyed...) | 19:03:05 |
 Arian | Tom did explicitly ask for feedback on the policy explicitly and nobody gave any | 19:04:02 |
| Arian | If there is no feedback then there can't be any progress. đ€·. It wasn't obscure. He shared the link to the policy in the channels where we discussed stuff in the aftermath of NixCon EU | 19:05:28 |
| Arian | I remember him sharing it | 19:05:42 |
 Janik (they/them) | In reply to @patka_123:matrix.org
It shouldn't become a numbers game, a new petition will just water everything down. The current people walking away that signed already will completely wreck everything (I mean in the sense that stuff will break, not actively destroyed...) this, since delroth already dropped their ssh key from the infra stuff we basically only have two people maintaining infra, and one of the two people also singed the letter. | 19:06:40 |
 @joepie91:pixie.town | patka: in terms of what to do next: I do also think it would be a good idea to start thinking about a plan B (or C?), in case the Foundation sticks with their current stance, and legal action is not viable for one reason or another | 19:06:46 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | was the outrage after NixCon EU not enough feedback? | 19:08:54 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | * was the outrage after NixCon EU not enough feedback to make the point clear? | 19:09:01 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | because if you've just had half a riot on your hands concerning a decision you've made, then asking "what do you think about it" again in a different place sure feels a lot like "keep asking until people forget to say no" | 19:10:00 |
| patka | In reply to @arianvp:matrix.org
If there is no feedback then there can't be any progress. đ€·. It wasn't obscure. He shared the link to the policy in the channels where we discussed stuff in the aftermath of NixCon EU That seems very weird. I wasn't contributing during NixCon EU. And if there was no feedback and it is not merged, then why is it used at all? | 19:10:50 |
 @theophane:hufschmitt.net | Can everyone please cool down a little? Half on us are giving help with the last minute préparions of a conference, so yes, we're quite unresponsive right now. My most immediate problem right now is to help the Scale team netboot a cluster of raspis with tftp over IPv6. If you know how to do that, you're welcome to help. | 19:12:16 |
 delroth | wow. | 19:13:02 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | the same conference that again accepted the same problematic sponsor that was at issue last time, which was then also responded to with "we're busy right now, will respond later"? that one? | 19:13:12 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | because this sure is starting to feel like a pattern | 19:13:33 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | and you can't exactly argue that you didn't see it coming, this time | 19:13:57 |
| K. Werty | In reply to @theophane:hufschmitt.net
Can everyone please cool down a little? Half on us are giving help with the last minute préparions of a conference, so yes, we're quite unresponsive right now. My most immediate problem right now is to help the Scale team netboot a cluster of raspis with tftp over IPv6. If you know how to do that, you're welcome to help. nah, this is actually way more important, and you've gotta realize that that statement isn't gonna cool people down at all | 19:14:18 |
| K. Werty | In reply to @theophane:hufschmitt.net
Can everyone please cool down a little? Half on us are giving help with the last minute préparions of a conference, so yes, we're quite unresponsive right now. My most immediate problem right now is to help the Scale team netboot a cluster of raspis with tftp over IPv6. If you know how to do that, you're welcome to help. * nah, this is actually way more important, and you've gotta realize that that statement isn't gonna cool people down at all (definitely had the opposite effect on me personally) | 19:16:21 |
| patka | In reply to @theophane:hufschmitt.net
Can everyone please cool down a little? Half on us are giving help with the last minute préparions of a conference, so yes, we're quite unresponsive right now. My most immediate problem right now is to help the Scale team netboot a cluster of raspis with tftp over IPv6. If you know how to do that, you're welcome to help. Wow, even more reason why the foundation is unfit for the job. | 19:16:22 |
| patka | In reply to @theophane:hufschmitt.net
Can everyone please cool down a little? Half on us are giving help with the last minute préparions of a conference, so yes, we're quite unresponsive right now. My most immediate problem right now is to help the Scale team netboot a cluster of raspis with tftp over IPv6. If you know how to do that, you're welcome to help. This is really your answer to the concerns so many have? | 19:17:16 |
 Manu [tennox] | I agree with the letter and it's intentions (also signed it)
But I don't agree with the amount of stress and turmoil I'm seeing here.
I agree that - as far as I have seen - the handling from "the foundation" (also mostly a bunch of volunteers) is poor and lacking transparency.
But if we want to support peace in the world I think we gotta start with a humbleness here and realize that this does not serve.
The letter has set a clear statement and now it's also time to let dust settle and let things move.
All of us involved here are also just: humans. | 19:22:42 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | Manu [tennox]: the problem with "letting the dust settle and letting things move" - as I intended to do above, actually - is that it requires for there to be some sort of signal that the feedback has been received and will be taken into consideration seriously. the reason people are angry is because it is abundantly clear that that is not actually happenin | 19:24:03 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | * Manu [tennox]: the problem with "letting the dust settle and letting things move" - as I intended to do above, actually - is that it requires for there to be some sort of signal that the feedback has been received and will be taken into consideration seriously. the reason people are angry is because it is abundantly clear that that is not actually happening | 19:24:04 |
| Manu [tennox] | I see | 19:24:26 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | and in that context, "letting the dust settle and letting things move" boils down to "nothing will happen and things won't change". it would be different if there had been a receptive response | 19:24:52 |
 ronef | Thanks for clarifying this, that was helpful as I felt I missed something between the call to the following | 19:25:17 |
| patka | In reply to @tennox:matrix.org
I agree with the letter and it's intentions (also signed it)
But I don't agree with the amount of stress and turmoil I'm seeing here.
I agree that - as far as I have seen - the handling from "the foundation" (also mostly a bunch of volunteers) is poor and lacking transparency.
But if we want to support peace in the world I think we gotta start with a humbleness here and realize that this does not serve.
The letter has set a clear statement and now it's also time to let dust settle and let things move.
All of us involved here are also just: humans. The big problem here is that a foundation is there to at least acknowledge a community. @Théophane is saying go away. @Eelco is only adding a heart emoji and @ronef is just lurking. | 19:25:43 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | as further clarification, I expect that this comment in particular did not help: https://matrix.to/#/!CJXQiUGqNPcFonEdME:nixos.org/$wqhw2GMwsigm8lamlO7gxkb1RwepG4ZbqFDcRDTOaE8?via=nixos.org&via=matrix.org&via=nixos.dev | 19:26:01 |
| Manu [tennox] | They is not saying "go away" they are saying "I have heard you and I don't have time" | 19:26:28 |
