| 13 Mar 2024 |
 patka | Time to reconsider spending my time here, I guess | 17:19:40 |
 Janik (they/them) | In reply to @patka_123:matrix.org
Time to reconsider spending my time here, I guess +1, I'm very disappointed with how that turned out. | 17:21:06 |
| Janik (they/them) | for anyone curious: https://pad.lassul.us/ustvshbjQAKOxmj5JsPLvQ?edit# here are the meeting notes | 17:23:48 |
 tomberek | This is not true. That "random tracker" is the official Foundation repo. This was announced in the Matrix channel specifically set aside to resolve this issue. | 17:24:46 |
| patka | Yes, yet is was a very problematic issue. So not even a single word on any of the discussion places about it actually being used is quite... not smart? | 17:26:35 |
 delroth | damn ok then I guess everyone was in agreement with the policy after all | 17:26:44 |
| patka | Good job selling out the community and negating all the concerns for a meager 5K. Good job! | 17:27:26 |
| tomberek | That is understandable. And I really do think we should further refine policy. And I can recommend ways to do it to achieve what I think you want to.
- "MIC" is really poorly defined. (eg: some consider Anduril to be a challenge and disruption to the MIC). It is also a term often specific to the US.
- The Zivilklausel as a policy + procedure is not a bad starting point because they have had so much time to clarify what it means and how they think about it.
- Don't only think about this particular incident. We have more dilemmas on the horizon: AI, corporate involvement, rise of non-free licenses, to name a few.
| 17:30:54 |
| tomberek | ( personally, I am not in favor of this specific change, but at least I can recommend a productive way to go about it ) | 17:32:54 |
 piegames | No dogpiling and no snark please | 17:32:54 |
| patka | Alright no snark. If it is about money, if I send the foundation 5K right now, will that buy me the spot instead of Anduril? | 17:34:16 |
| patka | Alright no snark. If it is about money, if I send the foundation 5K right now, will that buy me the spot instead of Anduril? (serious) | 17:34:27 |
| delroth | maybe people would be more willing to engage with your theoretical discussions about defining exact multi-dimensional ethical boundaries if 1. the easy decisions weren't already being botched (Anduril being reconsidered as a sponsor when all the evidence points to the community not being ok with that); 2. the foundation chair wasn't on the record saying they oppose having to make any decision based on criteria other than legality? | 17:39:11 |
| delroth | * maybe people would be more willing to engage with your theoretical discussions about defining exact multi-dimensional ethical boundaries if 1. the easy decisions weren't already being botched (Anduril being reconsidered as a sponsor when all the evidence points to the community not being ok with that); 2. the foundation chair wasn't on the record saying they oppose having to make any decision based on criteria other than legality? | 17:39:37 |
| piegames | In reply to @patka_123:matrix.org
Alright no snark. If it is about money, if I send the foundation 5K right now, will that buy me the spot instead of Anduril? (serious) Profpatsch made a similar offer at last NixCon. Not sure if it was taken seriously | 17:40:28 |
| piegames | I mean, being gold sponsor for an entire conference, as an individual, for only 5k … tempting indeed | 17:41:00 |
 @joepie91:pixie.town | question to the Foundation: where can I find the formal statutes? | 18:04:14 |
|  tgunnoe joined the room. | 18:04:37 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | ie. those filed with the KvK or such | 18:04:38 |
| Janik (they/them) | In reply to @joepie91:pixie.town
ie. those filed with the KvK or such I don't think they are public and you have to pay the kvk. | 18:05:57 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | I mean, I can do that, but I figured I'd ask first in case I missed a link, as a lot of organizations do publish their statutes on their own site | 18:06:43 |
| tomberek | I'd be happy to send an invoice to add an individual to the sponsor list. Our SCALE hosts have handled the invoicing and actual transfers. Contact us with where to send it. Thanks! We should be above budget and anything extra should go back to the Foundation. | 18:09:44 |
| Janik (they/them) | In reply to @tomberek:matrix.org
I'd be happy to send an invoice to add an individual to the sponsor list. Our SCALE hosts have handled the invoicing and actual transfers. Contact us with where to send it. Thanks! We should be above budget and anything extra should go back to the Foundation. Does this include dropping anduril as patka asked in the message above? | 18:12:26 |
| patka | In reply to @tomberek:matrix.org
I'd be happy to send an invoice to add an individual to the sponsor list. Our SCALE hosts have handled the invoicing and actual transfers. Contact us with where to send it. Thanks! We should be above budget and anything extra should go back to the Foundation. It would've been nice if you actually replied to the entire question. | 18:12:41 |
| tgunnoe | He said he doesn't want them to be in the position of moral arbiter, which is a completely reasonable stance | 18:13:41 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | (as a general note, foundations in the Netherlands are legally bound to their purpose as defined in the statutes) | 18:14:37 |
| tomberek | No, sponsorship is not exclusive. Having one sponsor demand to exclude another is not appropriate. We have multiple competitors simultaneously sponsor. | 18:17:52 |
| delroth | If you think that's a reasonable stance for the foundation's chair then I think it's also a very reasonable stance for me to hold that the foundation's board should be replaced with people who accept that they are in a position of moral arbiter. | 18:27:11 |
| delroth | and let's not forget that the board didn't refuse to make a decision, the board decided that Anduril was an ok sponsor to have for NixCon NA | 18:28:14 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | In reply to @joepie91:pixie.town
(as a general note, foundations in the Netherlands are legally bound to their purpose as defined in the statutes) for completeness. this is my translation of the goal of the Foundation as it is defined in the statutes:
"The goal of the foundation is: developing, marketing and promoting of the adoption of the purely functional software deployment model, and supporting open-source projects which implement this model, as well as all that which in the broadest sense relates to this, belongs to it, or could encourage it."
| 18:36:17 |
