In reply to @zimbatm:numtide.com

I think people have very different views of the board. Personally I don't see them as our community leaders at all and I absolutely don't want them to be.

That's very true. Our role is to be the interface between the community and legal/commercial. Not to lead the community. The intention was for the community to self-manage, with minimal intervention from the board to unblock where needed.

There is a big mismatch of expectations there, that started happening when we had to weigh on the sponsorship policy.

Just finished reading everything here, Matrix isn't friendly to scrolling.

I definitely hear the different issues raised and apologies for not being able to respond more timely from my end.

Jotting down a few of the issues mentioned that I've caught reading through (feel free to add/correct me)

1. Different wants/expectations around the boards role in the project - Choose and make it very explicit, then set up the structure around it to empower the community. Assuring teams/leads that no one is going to pop out of nowhere and hinder/block/slow/veto
2. Soft power with BDFL, while Eelco doesn't want/see himself as BDFL
3. Moderation pains
4. Conflicts of Interest with DetSys
5. Scope and Time -> Funding for the project
6. Xe's blog

In reply to @ronef:matrix.org

Just finished reading everything here, Matrix isn't friendly to scrolling.

I definitely hear the different issues raised and apologies for not being able to respond more timely from my end.

Jotting down a few of the issues mentioned that I've caught reading through (feel free to add/correct me)

1. Different wants/expectations around the boards role in the project - Choose and make it very explicit, then set up the structure around it to empower the community. Assuring teams/leads that no one is going to pop out of nowhere and hinder/block/slow/veto
2. Soft power with BDFL, while Eelco doesn't want/see himself as BDFL
3. Moderation pains
4. Conflicts of Interest with DetSys
5. Scope and Time -> Funding for the project
6. Xe's blog

In reply to @ronef:matrix.org

Just finished reading everything here, Matrix isn't friendly to scrolling.

I definitely hear the different issues raised and apologies for not being able to respond more timely from my end.

Jotting down a few of the issues mentioned that I've caught reading through (feel free to add/correct me)

1. Different wants/expectations around the boards role in the project - Choose and make it very explicit, then set up the structure around it to empower the community. Assuring teams/leads that no one is going to pop out of nowhere and hinder/block/slow/veto
2. Soft power with BDFL, while Eelco doesn't want/see himself as BDFL
3. Moderation pains
4. Conflicts of Interest with DetSys
5. Scope and Time -> Funding for the project
6. Xe's blog

In reply to @niksnut:matrix.org
The point isn't to "influence" the community but to improve Nix's adoption by addressing some of the biggest pain points (like docs and the installation process). As a Nix-based company growing the Nix user base is extremely important to us.

In reply to @kity:kity.wtf
Growing the Nix user base is an anti-goal for the community. The current "growing pains" as have been previously brought up are becoming a critical issue. Thisobviously aligns very closely with the rights-ratchet model outlined here: https://meshedinsights.com/2021/02/02/rights-ratchet

As well as this, the community will NOT grow and will only keep shrinking unless the issues that have been brought up continuously by every single community member who has left and declared their embarrassment to be part of a project that's behaving in this way are addressed. The community IS Nix.

If Eelco does not want to be seen as a BDFL trying to privatize Nix, he should prioritize the community's interests as stated by the COMMUNITY and maybe actually start reading what community members have been telling him repeatedly over years instead of apparently glancing at their messages for key words and then projecting his own guess of what they must be talking about. It is tone-deaf and insulting to our time and efforts.

In no unclear words let this message state: Eelco Dolstra is an obstacle to the community and should recuse himself immediately.

Growing the Nix user base is an anti-goal for the community.
Just ask for clarification, what does this mean?

Growing the Nix user base is an anti-goal for the community.

Just ask for clarification, what does this mean?

Arian: I share a similar frustration. The Board, Eelco, and community overall are being pulled into multiple directions at once. For the community to remain an anarchy, to have more oversight, to have a unified voice for the community. Having these be simultaneously true is a best difficult, and at worse impossible.

Calling for Eelco and the Board to not get involved, then not involved, then to exhibit more leadership, then to step down. This puts a great deal of pressure on them.

Regarding "growth is an anti-goal for the community". Many people do have this goal and many people have the opposite goal. Either we can co-exist and pursue these goals independently, or we have some structure to clarify this. I would consider it much clearer for the discussion to be in terms of goals. If people want growth to be an anti-goal (eg: "avoid success at all costs" of Haskell), then that should be the thing we talk about.

In reply to @tomberek:matrix.org

Arian: I share a similar frustration. The Board, Eelco, and community overall are being pulled into multiple directions at once. For the community to remain an anarchy, to have more oversight, to have a unified voice for the community. Having these be simultaneously true is a best difficult, and at worse impossible.

Calling for Eelco and the Board to not get involved, then not involved, then to exhibit more leadership, then to step down. This puts a great deal of pressure on them.

Regarding "growth is an anti-goal for the community". Many people do have this goal and many people have the opposite goal. Either we can co-exist and pursue these goals independently, or we have some structure to clarify this. I would consider it much clearer for the discussion to be in terms of goals. If people want growth to be an anti-goal (eg: "avoid success at all costs" of Haskell), then that should be the thing we talk about.

In reply to @kity:kity.wtf
Eelco has repeatedly stated that he does not want to be seen as a BDFL, that he does not hold any real power, that he would be willing to step down from his roles. He has also been asked (by a large portion of the community) to step down. Why has Eelco not stepped down?