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Sender	Message	Time
27 Apr 2024
nat-418	In any case I appreciate the candid response.	10:34:09
Eelco	In reply to @nat-418:nat-418.xyz So you improved them by creating alternatives? Yes, that's often how open source works. nix.dev started out as a Domen/cachix project. The tvix folks have every right to create a better Nix. Etc.	10:35:02
nat-418	In reply to @niksnut:matrix.org Yes, that's often how open source works. nix.dev started out as a Domen/cachix project. The tvix folks have every right to create a better Nix. Etc. So DetSys seeks to influence the broader Nix community by creating alternative documentation, installer, &c. that DetSys hopes will be eventually upstreamed? Is that a fair statement?	10:37:25
Eelco	The point isn't to "influence" the community but to improve Nix's adoption by addressing some of the biggest pain points (like docs and the installation process). As a Nix-based company growing the Nix user base is extremely important to us.	10:42:39
erincandescent	In reply to @niksnut:matrix.org The board doesn't decide every aspect of policy, in fact the only real policy we have so far is the sponsorship policy, and that only arose because we're helping with the financial side of NixCon. So there really isn't much power to delegate to the community, because we don't have those powers in the first place. And yet the board decided to set that policy in its entirety, rather than reserving for itself the powers it needs (e.g. right of veto, for legal protection/etc) and delegating the rest Right now it feels like the board is simultaneously expressing a desire to not be making policy, but also it is not delegating that policy making capability to other organs of the project	10:43:46
nat-418	In reply to @niksnut:matrix.org What influence do you see us seeking? For instance, we're not NixOS release managers, we're not on the RFC SC, the mod team, etc. This discussion between me and Eelco was in response to his question. I appreciate him taking the time to reply.	10:46:03
Eelco	In reply to @erincandescent:fairydust.space And yet the board decided to set that policy in its entirety, rather than reserving for itself the powers it needs (e.g. right of veto, for legal protection/etc) and delegating the rest Right now it feels like the board is simultaneously expressing a desire to not be making policy, but also it is not delegating that policy making capability to other organs of the project I mean, my preference was to just let the con organizers decide what sponsors they find acceptable.	10:46:43
Arian	Wasn't the policy drafted by someone outside of the board? Tomberek?	10:48:12
eaon	In reply to @niksnut:matrix.org Yes, that's often how open source works. nix.dev started out as a Domen/cachix project. The tvix folks have every right to create a better Nix. Etc. Tvix is not (yet) a for-profit project nor does it advocate for its use other than for purposes of experimentation. DetSys' positioning is obviously very, different, wouldn't you agree? To act as if your implicit power in the project (as a still very much present creator) has no bearing on how DetSys positioning is perceived is simply either really naïve or disingenuous. As a relative newcomer, DetSys' output has repeatedly confused me, because as opposed to just advocating for change internally you advocate to users directly. The steering of folks to your Discord is just the most recent example.	10:53:37
eaon	* Tvix is not (yet) a for-profit project nor does it advocate for its use other than for purposes of experimentation. DetSys' positioning is obviously very different, wouldn't you agree? To act as if your implicit power in the project (as a still very much present creator) has no bearing on how DetSys positioning is perceived is simply either really naïve or disingenuous. As a relative newcomer, DetSys' output has repeatedly confused me, because as opposed to just advocating for change internally you advocate to users directly. The steering of folks to your Discord is just the most recent example.	10:54:27
eaon	I'd really encourage everyone to read The Tyranny of Structurelessness by Jo Freeman. What is unfolding here is a classic example of what she described decades ago. None of this is a new phenomenon.	10:58:45

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