 | NixOS Foundation | 474 Members |
| Public room for chatting with the NixOS Foundation Board | 121 Servers |
| NixOS Foundation | 474 Members |
| Public room for chatting with the NixOS Foundation Board | 121 Servers |
| Sender | Message | Time |
|---|---|---|
| 19 Apr 2024 | ||
 delroth | do you think nlnet is properly aware of what they're getting out of SoN? | 20:38:31 |
| delroth | also, low efficiency isn't really debatable when you take groups of 5 participants and they end up having lower output (even after months of being in the program) than I'd expect a single nixpkgs committer would have in the same unit of time | 20:41:20 |
| delroth | (we've seen this in practice with e.g. pretalx) | 20:41:37 |
| delroth | (where, on top of being duplicated work, the duplicated work took significantly more person-hours than what ended up being done by a single contributor in nixpkgs) | 20:41:57 |
 @alejandrosame:matrix.org | In reply to @delroth:delroth.netNo clue tbh | 20:42:28 |
 Janik (they/them) | First of all to be fully transparent: I'm one of the facilitator for this year and thus have a financial tie to this project.
that's not entirely true, since it's a project in colab with the nixos foundation and all the financial stuff and contracts are handled through the foundation. | 20:44:07 |
| delroth | also, even if nlnet strictly set the goals (which I don't believe they do - it's probably fairly loosely defined, as it should be), there would still be significant leeway in how to achieve those goals, and that's the space I think would be worth exploring because I don't believe the SoN methods are being effective | 20:45:39 |
| @alejandrosame:matrix.org | In reply to @delroth:delroth.netMy comment of being debatable is more on the point of under which constraints are we talking about. Aka, I'm willing to talk specifics in detail to understand myself whenever I ran projects like this, but also I'm not a person with any decision making impact in any of this. | 20:46:10 |
| @alejandrosame:matrix.org | In reply to @janik0:matrix.orgSo then why ngipkgs exists to begin with? | 20:47:04 |
| Janik (they/them) | In reply to @alejandrosame:matrix.orgI have asked the same but did not get a satisfactory answer. | 20:47:37 |
| delroth | In reply to @alejandrosame:matrix.orgmakes perfect sense, and I'll clarify that low productivity/throughput on its own is not really a red flag either - if for example it came with tangible benefits in terms of ramping up contributors long term to the project. But right now we can't even honestly have this discussion because all I see in SoN reports is organizers claiming everything is amazing, including productivity | 20:48:27 |
| Janik (they/them) | btw, most builds of ngipkgs just straight up fail and don't seem to be maintained while lots of the packages would not be mergeable to nixpkgs because of a low quality and in general things that would be catched in a nixpkgs review https://hydra.ngi0.nixos.org/jobset/ngipkgs/main none of the packages has a vmtest or module from what I could tell in the ngipkgs repo which is also quiet sad, since vmtests are what (imho) differentiates good from very nix packages. | 20:52:40 |
| Janik (they/them) | * btw, most builds of ngipkgs just straight up fail and don't seem to be maintained while lots of the packages would not be mergeable to nixpkgs because of a low quality and in general things that would be catched in a nixpkgs review https://hydra.ngi0.nixos.org/jobset/ngipkgs/main none of the packages has a vmtest or module from what I could tell in the ngipkgs repo which is also quiet sad, since vmtests are what (imho) differentiates good from very good nix packages. | 20:53:14 |
| Janik (they/them) | In reply to @alejandrosame:matrix.orgfwiw there is a reasoning paragraph in the repo https://github.com/ngi-nix/ngipkgs/?tab=readme-ov-file#reasoning-for-creation-of-the-ngipkgs-monorepo | 20:55:28 |
 @nerves:bark.lgbt joined the room. | 23:26:51 | |
| 20 Apr 2024 | ||
 aynish | Full disclosure: I was a SoN 2023 participant. i think its pertinent to remember SoN is primarily about facilitating students. Low productivity, and low follow up aren't necessarily red flags even together imo. Lots of the packages in ngipkgs havent been packaged for nixpkgs precisely because of the difficulty in packaging them in nix, and that they landed in ngipkgs at all (flaws and all) by students speaks highly of the capabilities of mob programming. | 07:04:31 |
| aynish | In reply to @janik0:matrix.orgthats not true. ngipkgs dors have vmware tests, ive used them | 07:14:09 |