| 11 Apr 2024 |
 delroth | (I rechecked and indeed, https://www.hkp-notarissen.nl/ is who we consulted with) | 12:09:24 |
| delroth | FWIW because some people might not have seen that there's discussion ongoing on other media, and since the foundation hasn't replied to the question explicitly yet - so far DetSys's answer to "are you working with Anduril" is "we can't say, we might have an NDA" https://twitter.com/grhmc/status/1778386025007460682 | 13:12:52 |
| delroth | so "we can't say" if the foundation board chair might be in a conflict of interest regarding Anduril | 13:13:11 |
 @eyjhb:eyjhb.dk | In reply to @delroth:delroth.net
FWIW because some people might not have seen that there's discussion ongoing on other media, and since the foundation hasn't replied to the question explicitly yet - so far DetSys's answer to "are you working with Anduril" is "we can't say, we might have an NDA" https://twitter.com/grhmc/status/1778386025007460682 Quoting without quoting at all. | 13:19:18 |
| delroth | eyJhb: let's be reasonable here: there's no NDA that forbids a company from mentioning all of their clients and denying the fact that any company isn't one of their clients. These don't exist. So if the question might not be answerable due to NDAs, why do you think that is? | 13:21:12 |
| @eyjhb:eyjhb.dk | Have you never experienced a NDA that says you can't disclose you're working with that specific client? Or are you saying that there is no NDA stating that you can't state you don't work with a specific industry? | 13:22:28 |
 @joepie91:pixie.town | eyJhb: what delroth is trying to say that this answer implies but does not state an answer | 13:23:21 |
| @eyjhb:eyjhb.dk | My comment was just, if you're going to quote someone in some way, you can at least just do what they actually wrote on e.g. X'er
Did you know this category of question is pretty much impossible to answer because NDAs are a thing?
| 13:23:28 |
| @eyjhb:eyjhb.dk | Instead of implying further things of what was maybe implied in some way. | 13:24:05 |
| delroth | but I want to imply further things | 13:24:36 |
| delroth | that's the whole point | 13:24:47 |
 Federico DamiƔn Schonborn | In reply to @delroth:delroth.net
FWIW because some people might not have seen that there's discussion ongoing on other media, and since the foundation hasn't replied to the question explicitly yet - so far DetSys's answer to "are you working with Anduril" is "we can't say, we might have an NDA" https://twitter.com/grhmc/status/1778386025007460682 Thanks, sadly Xitter won't show threads for non logged-in users š« | 13:31:47 |
 pareto-optimal-dev | It feels like the underlying question here is:
Should someone that can't or doesn't answer whether they have conflicts of interest be in charge of a foundation? | 13:33:00 |
 Arian | Very bluntly. I don't think there is a conflict of interest at all here. Eelco is an employee of DetSys not a founder | 14:02:05 |
| delroth | In reply to @arianvp:matrix.org
Very bluntly. I don't think there is a conflict of interest at all here. Eelco is an employee of DetSys not a founder https://github.com/NixOS/foundation needs an update then, since it says "Eelco Dolstra is Founder / Secretary of the Board of Determinate Systems" | 14:03:23 |
| Arian | Oh nevermind. I somehow assumed he was an employee | 14:04:26 |
| Arian | (Just for the reason Detsys existed before Eelco joined it.) | 14:04:52 |
| Federico DamiƔn Schonborn | DetSys' site shows both Eelco and Graham as founders | 14:09:04 |
| delroth | But also to your wider point, there's a reason why some people have been mentioning that in general they're uncomfortable about the amount of corporate nix users representation in the board (which I understand comes in large part from historical reason and correlation with available time to work on nix stuff). IMO there's good reason to believe that someone whose salary depends on selling Nix to companies will have different incentives from other less corporate parts of the community. | 14:09:07 |
| delroth | (I'm personally not convinced that this is a huge problem to solve nor that the incentive misalignment can't be compensated for - but that's assuming the board is even interested in compensating for that misalignment) | 14:10:15 |
| delroth | * (I'm personally not convinced that this is a huge problem to solve or that the incentive misalignment can't be compensated for - but that's assuming the board is even interested in compensating for that misalignment) | 14:10:26 |
 Janik (they/them) | Fwiw there is a conflict of Interest policy in a pr https://github.com/NixOS/foundation/pull/40 but I don't know the current state of it. | 14:14:05 |
| pareto-optimal-dev | In reply to @janik0:matrix.org
Fwiw there is a conflict of Interest policy in a pr https://github.com/NixOS/foundation/pull/40 but I don't know the current state of it. Perhaps the best course of action is to simply try to get this passed? | 14:18:00 |
 @jonringer:matrix.org |
Definition: For the purposes of this rule, a conflict of interest is any situation in which a member's personal, financial, or other interests conflict, or appear to conflict, with the interests of the foundation leading the NixOS project.
I know it doesn't mean much coming from me. But the sponsorship wouldn't compensate any of the members personally, nor would it likely contribute to any of the consulting companies securing or not securing a contract (not to mention, likely illegal). Jonas can correct me if I'm wrong, but the intent there was to ensure that a member wasn't influencing board decisions for anything other than the betterment of the Nix ecosystem (which I agree with).
| 14:43:37 |
| delroth | that's a very narrow definition of "conflict of interest", there's a lot of indirect pressures and biases that come up when you have to take decisions regarding people that fund you | 14:50:29 |
| @jonringer:matrix.org | I agree, there's more nuance. | 14:51:17 |
| delroth | how does it reflect on (imaginary example to specifically not say detsys) flox/anduril relationships if the CEO of flox says "no we don't want nixos to be sponsored by anduril" basically | 14:51:24 |
| delroth | even the doubt that there might be retaliation is enough to influence decisions | 14:51:43 |
| delroth | which is why usually people willingly remove themselves from those decisions and declare their conflicts of interest... | 14:52:07 |
| @jonringer:matrix.org | I partially agree with some of your points, however, I'm not in a position currently to expand further (given my employment). And I think my views as a veteran of the USAF (and first hand experience within the military) will likely get conflated with my current employment. | 14:57:12 |
