 | NixOS Foundation | 456 Members |
| Public room for chatting with the NixOS Foundation Board | 112 Servers |
| NixOS Foundation | 456 Members |
| Public room for chatting with the NixOS Foundation Board | 112 Servers |
| Sender | Message | Time |
|---|---|---|
| 18 Sep 2023 | ||
 WhiteBlackGoose | In reply to @domenkozar:matrix.orgIn the worst case, just adjust it later. Otherwise just borrow one from .net foundation or rust or the like and it will cover most potential issues | 11:56:41 |
 @joepie91:pixie.town | I guess I have not brought this up in this particular room before, but: I do not think our lack of a CoC is the problem, I think it is merely a symptom. there have been repeated attempts in the past to introduce one, starting effectively with RFC 98 (which is rather important context to know why RFC 114 exists), and the people introducing it got burned out | 12:12:40 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | because of endless concern trolling and other bad-faith arguing from a limited but vocal set of community members, and lacking moderation of that at the time | 12:13:09 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | in other words: introducing a CoC is not a slam-dunk item to tick off the todo list, it is a process that has already been in progress for years, and that requires a lot of work to make it actually work in any meaningful way - sure, we can declare "we have a CoC now", but if there's neither enforcement nor community mindshare behind it, then that's just some words in a markdown file | 12:14:13 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | that's not to say it isn't important, just to highlight that it is neither the whole solution, nor an easy thing to just do, under the circumstances | 12:14:52 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | I personally think it makes more sense to see the CoC as an artifact or output of the moderation/community process; a registration of common values that the community has, broadly, agreed upon. as opposed to something that drives those values | 12:21:23 |
 Domen Kožar | Oh, CoC won't solve any much problems beyond establishing the norms that moderation team has been enforcing. Essentially writing down things so that implicit becomes explicit. There are many issues having a diverse community and we can't solve them at once, but with small steps in the right direction. | 12:29:54 |
| Domen Kožar | * Oh, CoC won't solve many problems beyond establishing the norms that moderation team has been enforcing. Essentially writing down things so that implicit becomes explicit. There are many issues having a diverse community and we can't solve them at once, but with small steps in the right direction. | 12:33:30 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | in that specific framing "establishing the norms that the moderation team has been enforcing", I can agree that having a CoC is useful - but with the explicit understanding that a) indeed this will not solve all of our issues, and b) it serves as a de-facto/"temporary" CoC, a way to document the current moderation approach, but not as something that should inhibit future community-drafted work | 12:35:08 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | (that last point doesn't really require any special action from the foundation, besides an acknowledgment that this is its purpose, to have something to point to in case future 'community standards' discussions run aground on "but we already have a CoC") | 12:36:01 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | I guess a better summary would be: I have no problem with a CoC based on current practices, as long as it's clear to everyone involved that it is not definitive :) | 12:37:33 |
| Domen Kožar | Yeah, it wouldn't be set in stone, but a giant step from zero to 1 and opening the discussion on what needs to improve going forward. | 12:40:04 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | right | 12:45:57 |
 Jonas Chevalier | In reply to @joepie91:pixie.town that's the moderation team's thinking as well. we want to start with an existing CoC so we don't have to re-invent everything from scratch, and will adjust it with experience. this is just one thing. we are also documenting our current practices in the "NixOS/moderation" repo (still needs more work). another side-benefit from the CoC is that it clarifies how to report abuse as it is part of the document. Right now this isn't very discoverable IMO. | 12:57:53 |
 Alyssa Ross | yep, that's a big issue people have mentioned tome | 12:58:17 |
| WhiteBlackGoose | In reply to @domenkozar:matrix.org It will set up boundaries. Implicit and unsaid rules only make sense for hiveminds. As a mod of (much smaller) communities myself I know how CoC (and consequential rules) make moderation easier | 13:18:53 |
| WhiteBlackGoose | Taking an existing CoC is a very sane idea | 13:19:41 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | (as someone with also a lot of community management experience) I do want to caution against "making moderation easier" with a CoC. in some cases that is a good thing, in some cases it's a matter of "it's easier only because we're now moderating to a paper standard rather than to outcomes", which is bad for the community itself | 13:20:10 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | * (as someone with also a lot of community management experience) I do want to caution against "making moderation easier" with a CoC. in some cases that is a good thing, in some cases it's a matter of "it's easier only because we're now moderating to a paper standard rather than to outcomes", which is bad for the community itself, as it allows for rule-lawyering and toxic influencers etc. to slip through | 13:20:42 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | moderation is fundamentally hard and complicated to some degree, and if you try to simplify it beyond its "minimum complexity", you'll end up creating problematic outcomes. so it's not always desirable to chase "easier moderation" | 13:21:43 |
 Salar Rahmanian (softinio) | ronef thanks 🙏 | 13:56:01 |
 @emilytrau:matrix.org left the room. | 23:22:43 | |
| 19 Sep 2023 | ||
| WhiteBlackGoose | NixOS spent just 15k from OpenCollective since 2019 or so. How is it so little? | 13:30:01 |
 raitobezarius | the opencollective is not a complete picture of what's going on in terms of finance | 13:30:30 |
| raitobezarius | more data was posted on the discourse by Ron, a board member | 13:30:35 |
| WhiteBlackGoose | I see data for 2022 yeah | 13:32:09 |
 ronef | Working on releasing the Q1/Q2/Q3 for 2023 :) | 15:57:52 |
| ronef | You can see parts of it in the state of the union slides | 15:58:06 |
| ronef | I just need to get it into a discourse post | 15:58:12 |
| 22 Sep 2023 | ||
 9glenda joined the room. | 23:52:31 | |