| 27 Apr 2024 |
 @theophane:hufschmitt.net | Re: a more structured governance for the community.
This is something the board has discussed quite a bit in the past. In particular we've talked to a bunch of leaders from various other communies (from ones of similar size like Haskell or Plone up to very big ones like Apache and Eclipse) to get advice on the matter.
One common theme amongst the bigger ones (who experienced that growth we have right now) is that structure is something that gets eventually unavoidable, but that having too much structure too early is as likely to kill the project – either by killing the spontaneity under bureaucracy, or by ending-up being ill-aligned with the community as it grows. | 09:58:58 |
| @theophane:hufschmitt.net | Hence the loose agreement on the anarchy-esque structure we've had so far | 09:59:53 |
| @theophane:hufschmitt.net | Maybe (evidently?) it's time to reconsider that | 10:00:20 |
 erincandescent | If the board wishes to just be a legal and fiscal vehicle - i.e. if it's members wish to be pure bureaucrats (and this is a very reasonable position to take; and indeed it's a job that needs going and is much appreciated), then it would be a good idea for it to explicitly delegate it's powers to a community function wherever possible, reserving just those it needs to explicitly protect itself; as opposed to the current situation where it is responsible for deciding every aspect of policy | 10:06:54 |
| erincandescent | * If the board wishes to just be a legal and fiscal vehicle - i.e. if it's members wish to be pure bureaucrats (and this is a very reasonable position to take; and indeed it's a job that needs going and is much appreciated), then perhaps it would be a good idea for it to explicitly delegate it's powers to a community function wherever possible, reserving just those it needs to explicitly protect itself; as opposed to the current situation where it is responsible for deciding every aspect of policy | 10:07:15 |
 @stablejoy:matrix.org | I've been using Linux since 2008. When I discovered Eelco's thesis and the community in 2019, I was enamored. All the invisible, buried wishes I had about Linux systems were somehow embodied in this Nix thing. Moreover, it had a purely functional and lazy language, and then the module system! I remember being so excited, and I still am when I talk about Nix. It's a happy thing, and the ideas are so beneficial to the world, like reproducible builds many more ideas. At its core, it has pure functional ideas. And it’s like a nurturing ground because of that for many ideas yet to come. It’s like what makes them possible in the first place. I remember reaching out to many Nixers and Haskellers back then who all showed support and helped me through DM or publicly on Twitter. From Syd to Renzo to Marijan to SomeoneSerge who simply began talking with me because I showed interest and gave me great advices ... to last year SoN interviewers who gave me great tips and encouragement. And Jonas always responds when I ask him something on Twitter. Then, the Nix team has open meetings. I can go there and connect? There are open office hours? Wow! I remember Eelco saying in a Nix developers interview, "Yeah, everyone can come and join; there's no hierarchy." I was telling some of my friends back home, "You know, you can actually engage with the team if you have something to say." Having something to say also means saying something meaningful, but the invitation is there, and that is so wonderful in terms of being there for each other. | 10:11:33 |
 Eelco | In reply to @erincandescent:fairydust.space
If the board wishes to just be a legal and fiscal vehicle - i.e. if it's members wish to be pure bureaucrats (and this is a very reasonable position to take; and indeed it's a job that needs going and is much appreciated), then perhaps it would be a good idea for it to explicitly delegate it's powers to a community function wherever possible, reserving just those it needs to explicitly protect itself; as opposed to the current situation where it is responsible for deciding every aspect of policy The board doesn't decide every aspect of policy, in fact the only real policy we have so far is the sponsorship policy, and that only arose because we're helping with the financial side of NixCon. So there really isn't much power to delegate to the community, because we don't have those powers in the first place. | 10:13:45 |
 nat-418 | In reply to @nat-418:nat-418.xyz
I see Determinate Systems as a VC-funded, for-profit fork of Nix (in the broader sense). It seems to me that by having an alternate installer, alternate documentation, an alternate community, &c. that promotes an alternate experimental technology (flakes), DetSys seeks to establish itself as a commercial alternative Nix ecosystem. My understanding was that your recent blog post invited Nix community members to join the DetSys community. If I am wrong, then I am more than willing to be corrected. I sincerely appreciate your work and willingness to answer questions. Eelco: is this ^ understanding of Determinate Systems wrong in your view? | 10:15:33 |
| nat-418 | In reply to @nat-418:nat-418.xyz
I see Determinate Systems as a VC-funded, for-profit fork of Nix (in the broader sense). It seems to me that by having an alternate installer, alternate documentation, an alternate community, &c. that promotes an alternate experimental technology (flakes), DetSys seeks to establish itself as a commercial alternative Nix ecosystem. My understanding was that your recent blog post invited Nix community members to join the DetSys community. If I am wrong, then I am more than willing to be corrected. I sincerely appreciate your work and willingness to answer questions. * Eelco: is this ^ understanding of Determinate Systems relationship to Nix wrong in your view? | 10:15:46 |
| nat-418 | In reply to @nat-418:nat-418.xyz
I see Determinate Systems as a VC-funded, for-profit fork of Nix (in the broader sense). It seems to me that by having an alternate installer, alternate documentation, an alternate community, &c. that promotes an alternate experimental technology (flakes), DetSys seeks to establish itself as a commercial alternative Nix ecosystem. My understanding was that your recent blog post invited Nix community members to join the DetSys community. If I am wrong, then I am more than willing to be corrected. I sincerely appreciate your work and willingness to answer questions. this relationship | 10:19:05 |
 Arian | We never had a very monolithic community in the first place. I find the suggestion of "alternate" community really strange. | 10:22:42 |
| Arian | We've always had small islands of communities flocking around nix. Krebs, tvl, OceanSprint just to identify some | 10:23:39 |
 lord-valen | I don't see any reason to comment on it before Eelco affirms or denies that that Determinate Systems presents itself as an alternate community. | 10:24:41 |
| lord-valen | * I don't see any reason to comment on it before Eelco affirms or denies that Determinate Systems presents itself as an alternate community. | 10:24:56 |
| Eelco | In reply to @nat-418:nat-418.xyz
Eelco: is this ^ understanding of Determinate Systems relationship to Nix wrong in your view? Yes, that's wrong. With the installer and zero-to-nix, we identified problems in the current ecosystem and sought to improve them. They're open source and can be upstreamed. Flakes pre-date DetSys and are widely used, and we have every right to go all in on them. | 10:29:56 |
| lord-valen | But since they haven't been upstreamed, doesn't that make them by-definition, alternatives? | 10:32:09 |
