To be clear, especially to people at the fringe of the community reading this, or people watching Summer or Nix from the sidelines, who may not be aware of the differences between in-person verbal and public written communication: this is definitely not a battle, not even a heated debate. This is how we clarify uncertainty, and the length of text and style of argument says little about relative importance or tone of voice one may say this in if we were talking to each other in a room.

Jack Leightcap Janik (they/them) alejandrosame Julien aynish many others and I all have working relationships and talk or exchange messages more or less regularly, we know how the other speaks, what certain ways of phrasing mean, and a bit of each other’s way of thinking. Many others I have met in person or talked with remotely at least once.

Read me here as being rather casual but serious – not agitated.

In reply to @fricklerhandwerk:matrix.org

delroth I‘m confused about all this. Why don’t you ask me directly if you see issues? I’m online and responsive essentially every day. This can happen in public if you feel like it. There are no secrets around what’s happening, sometimes merely lack of communication.

It’s a bit much to unpack right now, and I’ll reply in detail when I’m back at a keyboard. But I reject the claim that I ever said anything even close to “everything is amazing”. Getting this stuff right is hard, I’m very critical about the outcomes, and I highly appreciate any feedback and tips on how to do it better.

Procedural note: Maybe we can find a better venue for such a discussion? This already completely occupies the channel and prevents other subjects from getting attention.

I am catching up on this and this is what came to mind immediately. It seems most opinions regarding SoN are negative - the program isn't that useful. But it's not a new program. We're in..... year 3 now? Why wait this long? Is this in response to the financial report?

I was in the last SoN and I found it incredibly useful. I packaged a program prior and wanted to find ways to get more involved within the community and enhanced my skills. And with Nix documentation historically being very..... "unhelpful" (for lack of a better word) 😅 this was the perfect opportunity. Somehow I came across SoN.

I think mob programming is interesting and I do see its benefits. I believe it's a good social learning technique. You learn, observe and implement. These are all good skills for practice. While I'm not an immediate fan of mob-cli, something I want to clarify as I had given feedback in person to Eelco and Ryan and didn't clarify that it was mob-cli I didn't like and not the mob format in general. Something I also did share with Dawn recently.

Yet, it's also difficult to understand the issues if one hasn't participated or looked at the packages provided for the program and their associated PRs. There's a lot of context and stating "oh it's a waste of money" because packages aren't being upstreamed completely misses the point.

While I'd love for the work that's done to be upstreamed it's not always so simple. But I digress....

This is a special program. It's not perfect but nothing is and that's what feedback is for. It needs to exist for the sake of Nix's future. For the sake of contributors, enthusiasts and supporters. There's so much opportunity to grow this. It's essentially creating new Nix contributors. How can that be a waste of time and money? I think we should discuss how to improve it and make it better and not why it should be terminated. That would be a mistake.

My turn to catch up, appreciate everyone's participation on these kind of topics <3

Jason Odoom to clarify from my end I perceive this as a want and interest from many community members to indeed participate in helping improve the program and not terminating at all.

In reply to @alejandrosame:matrix.org
So then why ngipkgs exists to begin with?

In reply to @tomberek:matrix.org
Was the renewed interest and questioning of SoN value because of the financial report?