| 8 Sep 2023 |
 @joepie91:pixie.town | this is "I have been trying to do X and have not gotten the room to do so", and the same applies for various other people | 10:12:33 |
 vcunat | Yeah, large part of community don't won't to deal with anything "political". | 10:12:41 |
| vcunat | * Yeah, large part of community don't want to deal with anything "political". | 10:12:48 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | In reply to @vcunat:matrix.org
And honestly, about this incident in particular, I believe the main attacked minority in there are those weapon-makers. (fairly or not) weapon vendors are not a marginalized group. | 10:12:49 |
 Arian | But the discussion is very political and I don't see anybody in the discussion really denying that (except for one person) | 10:13:13 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | In reply to @vcunat:matrix.org
Yeah, large part of community don't want to deal with anything "political". where "political" is conveniently defined as "things that require me, personally, to think critically about things", and conveniently excludes "harms that are currently occurring to others and that the community might be encouraging or increasing" | 10:13:22 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | which is not an acceptable way to go about things | 10:13:28 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | accepting a murder machines seller as a sponsor is not "apolitical" | 10:14:02 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | defending doing so is not "apolitical" | 10:14:10 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | trying to raise a stink about an invite-only room for marginalized folks because you can't accept that there's somewhere you're not wanted, is not "apolitical" | 10:14:32 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | frustrating a code of conduct process to the point of contributor burnout with fallacious arguments instead of actually engaging with the concerns, is not "apolitical" | 10:14:54 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | "apolitical", here, is nothing but a shield to hide against so that people don't need to take responsibility for their actions and impact on (especially vulnerable) community members | 10:15:13 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | * "apolitical", here, is nothing but a shield to hide behind so that people don't need to take responsibility for their actions and impact on (especially vulnerable) community members | 10:15:19 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | these are fundamentally political topics, there is no "apolitical" option, and entirely too often the selected politics are those of harm and oppression because it's the easiest one for a bunch of privileged tech dudes to deal with personally | 10:16:06 |
| vcunat | Many people in the community don't want to deal with this, but IMHO that's why we have moderation team - people who volunteered to deal with this. | 10:16:07 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | well, tough luck; they will have to take responsibility for their part in it | 10:16:26 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | I don't want to deal with being in constant danger of severe harm either, but being marginalized, I don't get that choice | 10:16:52 |
| vcunat | In reply to @vcunat:matrix.org
Many people in the community don't want to deal with this, but IMHO that's why we have moderation team - people who volunteered to deal with this. So IMHO this team (and people around) need to get together and figure out how to do this, like review code of conduct, etc. | 10:16:58 |
| Arian | So you want clarity on the position of the foundation on the sponsorship decision? Or is it about the discussion on discourse in particular | 10:17:11 |
| Arian | I want clarity on the first one as well . Would love to see a more complete statement of the situation | 10:17:38 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | Arian: I want some actual effective action and/or support around the community safety issues, instead of the constant "🤷 well they're just opinions, nothing we can do about it" | 10:17:59 |
| vcunat | In reply to @arianvp:matrix.org
I want clarity on the first one as well . Would love to see a more complete statement of the situation I agree that both need to be figured out somehow. And I don't think it will be easy. | 10:18:27 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | the sponsorship itself is a separate matter, and I am awaiting the statement on the matter; this is entirely about the community safety issues | 10:18:29 |
| Arian | Okay so you want that discussion to be more heavily moderated so that it can happen safely? | 10:18:52 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | that would have been a way to prevent RFC98 from becoming the shitshow that it did, for example, yes | 10:19:25 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | but I am not asking for one specific singular action | 10:19:46 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | I am asking for a commitment to take future actions and/or provide support where necessary to address these community safety issues, and to put a stop to the constant sabotaging | 10:20:28 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | which exact form that takes will depend on the specific case | 10:20:38 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | and recognizing that murder machine apologists are not, in fact, people who create a safe environment for marginalized folks (who are disproportionately on the receiving end of said murder machines) would be a minimal first step | 10:21:35 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | like, to put it more bluntly: the comments in that forum thread are damning evidence of just how comfortable a number of community members feel in actively defending a murder machines company that, among other things, kills immigrants at the border | 10:23:41 |
