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4 Sep 2023
@maralorn:maralorn.demaralorn joined the room.22:50:38
5 Sep 2023
@skorpy:entropia.deskorpy 🏳️‍⚧️ joined the room.08:17:42
@bb010g:matrix.orgDusk joined the room.08:50:20
@joepie91:pixie.town@joepie91:pixie.town okay, so... what's the deal with that Anduril sponsorship of NixCon? it's good that the sponsorship was dropped, but I don't think that that's enough - I really want to know in more detail how such an obviously harmful company could ever have obtained a sponsor spot to begin with 12:50:22
@joepie91:pixie.town@joepie91:pixie.townbecause that seems like something where multiple people must have made a gross judgment error12:50:42
@joepie91:pixie.town@joepie91:pixie.townand if that could get through, it makes me concerned about what standards for community involvement the organization is operating by12:51:42
@raitobezarius:matrix.orgraitobezariusWe will address this as soon as we can12:54:33
@raitobezarius:matrix.orgraitobezarius(That is, answering to the questions you have put)12:55:02
@joepie91:pixie.town@joepie91:pixie.townright. is there any plan for publishing a post-mortem? (of the detailed kind, not the PR spin kind) - as I assume that would also answer my questions12:55:54
@raitobezarius:matrix.orgraitobezariusI expressively asked that we don't do the PR spin kind and skip to the public address that will be partially a post mortem12:56:28
@raitobezarius:matrix.orgraitobezariusA true post mortem would require much more time and people understandably would like answers a bit faster12:56:43
@hexchen:colon.athexchen joined the room.12:56:57
@raitobezarius:matrix.orgraitobezariusIf by the time we get there (and I say this without any sarcasm), we still have enough of the folks involved not burned out, it would be nice to have a complete true post mortem12:57:36
@joepie91:pixie.town@joepie91:pixie.townyeah, that is understandable. the important thing to me is that it's dealt with transparently, so that everybody in the community can understand what happened and where we stand on it12:57:49
@raitobezarius:matrix.orgraitobezariusI will do my best to deliver on this while trying to ensure that nothing uglier happens at this point of the ongoing crisis12:58:33
@joepie91:pixie.town@joepie91:pixie.townthanks12:59:09
@raitobezarius:matrix.orgraitobezarius* I will do my best to deliver on this while trying to ensure that nothing uglier happens at this point of the ongoing situation15:02:09
@cyclopentane:aidoskyneen.eucyclopentane ⭔ joined the room.19:27:27
@arianvp:matrix.orgArian joined the room.20:49:46
6 Sep 2023
@vcunat:matrix.orgvcunatCrossing my fingers that noone gets burnt out around this. Or around nixos.org generally really :-)15:57:08
@unknowntrojan:unknowntrojan.winunknownanyone want a nixcon ticket? I don't think I'll be going due to a deadline at work.... 20:01:32
@artturin:matrix.orgArtturinpost here https://discourse.nixos.org/t/nixcon-2023-darmstadt-germany/2946620:03:31
@unknowntrojan:unknowntrojan.winunknownalr ty20:03:39
8 Sep 2023
@joepie91:pixie.town@joepie91:pixie.town posting about this here as requested by raitobezarius... this thread is turning into a shitshow of concern trolling and murder machine apologism and something should probably be done about that: https://discourse.nixos.org/t/nixcon-sponsored-by-military/32626 00:24:54
@joepie91:pixie.town@joepie91:pixie.townslight correction: not just concern trolling, but a variety of bad-faith discussion tactics00:26:02
@joepie91:pixie.town@joepie91:pixie.town * slight correction: not just concern trolling, but a variety of bad-faith discussion tactics, including but not limited to concern trolling00:26:13
@joepie91:pixie.town@joepie91:pixie.town (specifically, it deeply concerns me how many people there are in the community who consider this acceptable behaviour or beliefs to hold, and makes me feel rather unsafe as a result) 00:31:18
@proofconstruction:matrix.orgproofconstruction

The handling of this situation underscores the need for establishing at least the following:

  • a community code of conduct, to provide guidance and establish boundaries for safe and productive coordination,
  • tighter sponsorship guidelines for (quasi?) official events, to help clarify accountability in these cases,
  • clarification of what constitutes an official event (in my opinion, only explicitly-Foundation-organized events should carry the "official" status, with the relevant communications coming from individuals explicitly acting as representatives of the Foundation),
  • better practices around public-facing messaging in general (I understand everyone is very busy with last-minute preparations, but we still have not seen a statement about how and why the decision was made to accept this sponsorship, nor its reversal),
  • community moderators who carry responsibility for ensuring the code of conduct is adhered to, and who are publicly accountable for any actions taken (some of this responsibility is already held by the Moderation Team, but my intention here is to further distribute that burden to community members whose only job is this, and who do not also hold high-profile maintainer positions on other teams; these folks tend to be too busy to actively and consistently participate in faster-paced contexts like Discourse threads or in the many unofficial channels)
01:45:40
@proofconstruction:matrix.orgproofconstruction *

The handling of this situation underscores the need for establishing at least the following:

  • a community code of conduct, to provide guidance and establish boundaries for safe and productive coordination,
  • tighter sponsorship guidelines for (quasi?) official events, to help clarify accountability in these cases,
  • clarification of what constitutes an official event (in my opinion, only explicitly-Foundation-organized events should carry the "official" status, with the relevant communications coming from Foundation-labeled accounts or individuals explicitly acting as representatives of the Foundation),
  • better practices around public-facing messaging in general (I understand everyone is very busy with last-minute preparations, but we still have not seen a statement about how and why the decision was made to accept this sponsorship, nor its reversal),
  • community moderators who carry responsibility for ensuring the code of conduct is adhered to, and who are publicly accountable for any actions taken (some of this responsibility is already held by the Moderation Team, but my intention here is to further distribute that burden to community members whose only job is this, and who do not also hold high-profile maintainer positions on other teams; these folks tend to be too busy to actively and consistently participate in faster-paced contexts like Discourse threads or in the many unofficial channels)
02:05:01
@vcunat:matrix.orgvcunat
In reply to @joepie91:pixie.town
(specifically, it deeply concerns me how many people there are in the community who consider this acceptable behaviour or beliefs to hold, and makes me feel rather unsafe as a result)
The community is large, like thousands of people. It's inevitable to contain all kinds of people 🤷 I don't think this is basis to feel unsafe; I'm quite sure nixos.org community is a better sample than people one meets in person. Controversial topics will just highlight more extreme opinions.
05:48:13

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