| 8 Sep 2023 |
 vcunat | joepie91 🏳️🌈 The topic was moderated. I think further complains about that should go to the team instead of the foundation channel. https://nixos.org/community/teams/moderation.html | 10:04:00 |
 @joepie91:pixie.town | I was specifically asked to talk about it here by raitobezarius | 10:04:12 |
| vcunat | (perhaps the moderation came a bit late) | 10:04:16 |
 Arian | Sorry I am reacting emotionally. I'll Refrain from discussing here further. And leave moderation team / foundation npeople go react here instead | 10:04:29 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | and my remaining patience for Going Through Proper Channels for this sort of thing is at an all-time low, given the past incidents around the Gender Minorities room, the RFC98 process, and so on, all of which have never been actually reckoned with | 10:04:44 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | I am very much at the point of "either this gets solved or I will stop contributing" | 10:05:00 |
| vcunat | Well, I really don't envy members of the foundation and moderation teams. | 10:05:53 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | like, this isn't a one-off incident, it's the Nth incident in a series of incidents that always, always end up centering around tech dudes concern-trolling and otherwise sabotaging attempts to fix community safety problems while pretending to "just have a reasonable debate" or "just raise some concerns" - this is a systemic problem in the NixOS community that keeps coming back and that needs addressing, and it has already burned out too many marginalized folks who have tried to address this themselves | 10:06:53 |
| vcunat | The community has grown very fast in the past years and always was very under-organized. It's not just this aspect but whole governance needs to be figured out better as the community grows. | 10:08:42 |
| vcunat | And honestly, about this incident in particular, the only attacked minority in there are those weapon-makers. (fairly or not) | 10:10:23 |
| vcunat | * And honestly, about this incident in particular, I believe the main attacked minority in there are those weapon-makers. (fairly or not) | 10:10:54 |
| Arian | I'm not even sure what the actual call to action is. Are you asking for the discussion to be more strictly moderated? For the discussion to be removed altogether (that sounds counter productive) | 10:11:11 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | In reply to @vcunat:matrix.org
The community has grown very fast in the past years and always was very under-organized. It's not just this aspect but whole governance needs to be figured out better as the community grows. yeah so that is the thing, that's what I've been working on for the past few years, and it is continuously getting frustrated by aforementioned "apolitical" tech dudes | 10:12:09 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | like, this isn't some "we should do X" | 10:12:19 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | this is "I have been trying to do X and have not gotten the room to do so", and the same applies for various other people | 10:12:33 |
| vcunat | Yeah, large part of community don't won't to deal with anything "political". | 10:12:41 |
| vcunat | * Yeah, large part of community don't want to deal with anything "political". | 10:12:48 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | In reply to @vcunat:matrix.org
And honestly, about this incident in particular, I believe the main attacked minority in there are those weapon-makers. (fairly or not) weapon vendors are not a marginalized group. | 10:12:49 |
| Arian | But the discussion is very political and I don't see anybody in the discussion really denying that (except for one person) | 10:13:13 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | In reply to @vcunat:matrix.org
Yeah, large part of community don't want to deal with anything "political". where "political" is conveniently defined as "things that require me, personally, to think critically about things", and conveniently excludes "harms that are currently occurring to others and that the community might be encouraging or increasing" | 10:13:22 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | which is not an acceptable way to go about things | 10:13:28 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | accepting a murder machines seller as a sponsor is not "apolitical" | 10:14:02 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | defending doing so is not "apolitical" | 10:14:10 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | trying to raise a stink about an invite-only room for marginalized folks because you can't accept that there's somewhere you're not wanted, is not "apolitical" | 10:14:32 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | frustrating a code of conduct process to the point of contributor burnout with fallacious arguments instead of actually engaging with the concerns, is not "apolitical" | 10:14:54 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | "apolitical", here, is nothing but a shield to hide against so that people don't need to take responsibility for their actions and impact on (especially vulnerable) community members | 10:15:13 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | * "apolitical", here, is nothing but a shield to hide behind so that people don't need to take responsibility for their actions and impact on (especially vulnerable) community members | 10:15:19 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | these are fundamentally political topics, there is no "apolitical" option, and entirely too often the selected politics are those of harm and oppression because it's the easiest one for a bunch of privileged tech dudes to deal with personally | 10:16:06 |
| vcunat | Many people in the community don't want to deal with this, but IMHO that's why we have moderation team - people who volunteered to deal with this. | 10:16:07 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | well, tough luck; they will have to take responsibility for their part in it | 10:16:26 |
