In reply to @tumble1999:matrix.org
History? How it began?

I am starting to loose my (usually pretty high) patience over the sponsorship policy matter. We have discussed and negotiated for countless hours to find an agreement last sunday and it seems that critical parts of this agreement are still not reflected in the discussed proposal and people are continuing to fight it (see https://github.com/NixOS/foundation/pull/128#discussion_r1555431821 https://github.com/NixOS/foundation/pull/128#pullrequestreview-1985792267 https://github.com/NixOS/foundation/pull/134#issuecomment-2044254293). This is turning into a strategic political game to fight over who gets seats on the committee (see this as a good sign of it https://github.com/NixOS/foundation/pull/133). I am sorry but this is very disrespectful on the compromises we all accepted to make for the sake of finding a common ground and under these conditions, it is no deal for me.

If we take a step back, I have to say this policy - even including all the critical points that are currently dismissed by a few people - is only acceptable because of the good will of community stakeholders to put that whole episode behind us, but is very on the edge of being a "no go". Let's remind everyone that what the community actually want is no military sponsorship (https://nixos-users-against-mic-sponsorship.github.io/). We have now lost countless hours and burnt out contributors discussing with a handful of community members without any particular legitimacy - apart from the fact that they seem to have an infinite amount of time to dedicate to the question - to try to come up with a policy that will be satisfactory to them to the point where we have stripped it of any sense and any guarantee that the situations we are trying to prevent will not happen again.

It's even more frustrating that this all situation is fueled by two great fallacies:

1. Accepting a sponsor (and making a large proportion of the contributors very uncomfortable with the project they are working on) and rejecting a sponsor (and not gain a certain amount of money) are of equal threat to the global project and should be discussed on equal grounds
2. The overall feeling of the community that has been proven by more than 200 people signing an open letter and a handful of clustered people opinion should be treated on equal grounds and consensus should be found to go forward

We have been bleeding an incredible amount of time, resources, trust, contributors and community cohesion over this topic now for more than a month, I urge the foundation to take its responsibilities and:

1. Put the topic to bed by adopting a sponsorship policy that will give strong guarantees that this community will never be torn apart again by an accepted sponsor (and I'll be clear that this is not the policy currently on the table);
2. Make amends to the community.

I am starting to lose my (usually pretty high) patience over the sponsorship policy matter. We have discussed and negotiated for countless hours to find an agreement last sunday and it seems that critical parts of this agreement are still not reflected in the discussed proposal and people are continuing to fight it (see https://github.com/NixOS/foundation/pull/128#discussion_r1555431821 https://github.com/NixOS/foundation/pull/128#pullrequestreview-1985792267 https://github.com/NixOS/foundation/pull/134#issuecomment-2044254293). This is turning into a strategic political game to fight over who gets seats on the committee (see this as a good sign of it https://github.com/NixOS/foundation/pull/133). I am sorry but this is very disrespectful on the compromises we all accepted to make for the sake of finding a common ground and under these conditions, it is no deal for me.

If we take a step back, I have to say this policy - even including all the critical points that are currently dismissed by a few people - is only acceptable because of the good will of community stakeholders to put that whole episode behind us, but is very on the edge of being a "no go". Let's remind everyone that what the community actually want is no military sponsorship (https://nixos-users-against-mic-sponsorship.github.io/). We have now lost countless hours and burnt out contributors discussing with a handful of community members without any particular legitimacy - apart from the fact that they seem to have an infinite amount of time to dedicate to the question - to try to come up with a policy that will be satisfactory to them to the point where we have stripped it of any sense and any guarantee that the situations we are trying to prevent will not happen again.

It's even more frustrating that this all situation is fueled by two great fallacies:

1. Accepting a sponsor (and making a large proportion of the contributors very uncomfortable with the project they are working on) and rejecting a sponsor (and not gain a certain amount of money) are of equal threat to the global project and should be discussed on equal grounds
2. The overall feeling of the community that has been proven by more than 200 people signing an open letter and a handful of clustered people opinion should be treated on equal grounds and consensus should be found to go forward

We have been bleeding an incredible amount of time, resources, trust, contributors and community cohesion over this topic now for more than a month, I urge the foundation to take its responsibilities and:

1. Put the topic to bed by adopting a sponsorship policy that will give strong guarantees that this community will never be torn apart again by an accepted sponsor (and I'll be clear that this is not the policy currently on the table);
2. Make amends to the community.

I am starting to lose my (usually pretty high) patience over the sponsorship policy matter. We have discussed and negotiated for countless hours to find an agreement last sunday and it seems that critical parts of this agreement are still not reflected in the discussed proposal and people are continuing to fight it (see https://github.com/NixOS/foundation/pull/128#discussion_r1555431821 https://github.com/NixOS/foundation/pull/128#pullrequestreview-1985792267 https://github.com/NixOS/foundation/pull/134#issuecomment-2044254293). This is turning into a strategic political game to fight over who gets seats on the committee (see this as a good sign of it https://github.com/NixOS/foundation/pull/133). I am sorry but this is very disrespectful on the compromises we all accepted to make for the sake of finding a common ground and under these conditions, it is no deal for me.

If we take a step back, I have to say this policy - even including all the critical points that are currently dismissed by a few people - is only acceptable because of the good will of community stakeholders to put that whole episode behind us, but is very on the edge of being a "no go". Let's remind everyone that what the community actually want is no military sponsorship (https://nixos-users-against-mic-sponsorship.github.io/). We have now lost countless hours and burnt out contributors discussing with a handful of community members without any particular legitimacy - apart from the fact that they seem to have an infinite amount of time to dedicate to the question - to try to come up with a policy that will be satisfactory to them to the point where we have stripped it of any sense and any guarantee that the situations we are trying to prevent will not happen again.

It's even more frustrating that this all situation is fueled by two great fallacies:

1. Accepting a sponsor (and making a large proportion of the contributors very uncomfortable with the project they are working on) and rejecting a sponsor (and not gain a certain amount of money) are of equal threat to the global project and should be discussed on equal grounds
2. The overall feeling of the community that has been proven by more than 200 people signing an open letter and a handful of clustered people's opinion should be treated on equal grounds and consensus should be found to go forward

We have been bleeding an incredible amount of time, resources, trust, contributors and community cohesion over this topic now for more than a month, I urge the foundation to take its responsibilities and:

1. Put the topic to bed by adopting a sponsorship policy that will give strong guarantees that this community will never be torn apart again by an accepted sponsor (and I'll be clear that this is not the policy currently on the table);
2. Make amends to the community.

We need to find a better way to do these things, I agree that it's exhausting. N:M conversations is super tiring IMO. It's also not unusual that when close to the finishing line, the tension rises again.

Julien are you available today to put the finishing touches on the document? Then I can present it to the board later today and get it ratified.

In reply to @zimbatm:numtide.com
or delroth ?

Absolutely not, I made it 10 minutes into the first board call about this before being convinced that the root of the issue is with the foundation board (lack of decisiveness, lack of understanding of the community, lack of honesty) and all I've seen so far has only convinced me further. This could have been solved in 15 minutes by decisive action from the board a month ago, I'm not playing that game and wasting more hours to try and give this unnecessary process any more legitimacy.

Reminder that so far the board has still not admitted that re-accepting an Anduril sponsorship was a mistake, instead still hiding behind tomberek's "policy" to justify that they did the right thing.

(And yes, I know you're not sharing that opinion, but you're also not willing to make statements in the name of the board, or state your own opinion much. Unlike other foundation board members...)

In reply to @zimbatm:numtide.com
or delroth ?

Absolutely not, I made it 10 minutes into the first board call about this before being convinced that the root of the issue is with the foundation board (lack of decisiveness, lack of understanding of the community, lack of honesty) and all I've seen so far has only convinced me further. This could have been solved in 15 minutes by decisive action from the board a month ago, I'm not playing that game and wasting more hours to try and give this unnecessary process any more legitimacy.

Reminder that so far the board has still not admitted that re-accepting an Anduril sponsorship was a mistake, instead still hiding behind tomberek's "policy" to justify that they did the right thing.

(And yes, I know you're not sharing that opinion, but you're also not willing to make statements in the name of the board, or state your own opinion clearly. Unlike other foundation board members...)

In reply to @zimbatm:numtide.com
I think we're getting a bit lost in details, the goal is to have a NixCon we can go and enjoy, without fearing that something bad will come up