| 29 Apr 2024 |
 nat-418 | In reply to @zimbatm:numtide.com
Agreed. Looking back, having us take a lot of space at NixCon also helped reinforce this notion that we are important / leaders * I keep coming back to this question of "what is the community and how does it decide?" because I perceive the board as having been sucked into the vacuum that samrose described. If contentious issues had a process for collective resolution, then I think there would be less confusion, conflation, and frankly criticism of the board per se: the "boring" work could be freed to be boring. | 05:00:48 |
 ronef | Hopeful that some of the work we have been doing over the last few days would bring an initial structure to get that part going. | 05:09:59 |
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 @joepie91:pixie.town | In reply to @nat-418:nat-418.xyz
I keep coming back to this question of "what is the community and how does it decide?" because I perceive the board as having been sucked into the vacuum that samrose described. If contentious issues had a process for collective resolution, then I think there would be less confusion, conflation, and frankly criticism of the board per se: the "boring" work could be freed to be boring. there's an important part missing here; there have been prior attempts at resolving this by trying to improve the RFC process, expecting the board to become involved is the result of those attempts failing (for a variety of reasons that I don't feel like relitigating here) | 14:07:13 |
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 samrose | In reply to @joepie91:pixie.town
there's an important part missing here; there have been prior attempts at resolving this by trying to improve the RFC process, expecting the board to become involved is the result of those attempts failing (for a variety of reasons that I don't feel like relitigating here) I do understand what you are referring to. It could be that a new attempt at getting rules, and processes in place could work better, despite many rounds of previous failure. There also have been some successes emerging from all of this too.
There needs to be some rational rules about how to participate in RFC processes, organization discussion, etc
We should at least agree as participants to share responsibility for trying to avoid destructive actions (including massively using up the time of people who volunteer to work in this project). Maybe then people would need to be reminded from time to time that they agreed to try and do this, plus how what they are doing is not being responsible for doing that.
What are the rules and conditions that I should be ok living with, that would help collective processes work better in the nix community?
| 14:50:55 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | last time I attempted to propose such rules, a project member with a significant amount of power started being emotionally abusive with essentially no consequences, so forgive me if I do not really feel like entertaining the "just talk it out" option | 14:54:02 |
| samrose | In reply to @joepie91:pixie.town
last time I attempted to propose such rules, a project member with a significant amount of power started being emotionally abusive with essentially no consequences, so forgive me if I do not really feel like entertaining the "just talk it out" option But presumably that person going forward would need to abide by the same rules, right? The rules we create and agree to live with should include not allowing people to be abusing, and having consequences. That did not happen before, but does need to for this community to succeed in having inclusive processes. | 14:56:09 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | yes, that is why things have escalated to the board | 14:56:39 |
| samrose | Just talk it out is not enough agree | 14:56:42 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | that is why we are at the point we are now | 14:56:45 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | pretty much everything you might think of has already been attempted | 14:56:54 |
| @joepie91:pixie.town | (these issues and attempts at resolving them have been ongoing for years by this point) | 14:57:30 |
 problems | there's some conflation of "rules" with "moderation" here. effective moderation is based on promoting positive values and leading by example, not strictly enforcing a specific set of rules which can by nature only cover a subset of possible bad behavior | 14:59:45 |
| samrose | joepie91 🏳️🌈: I've been around since 2018, and I have some familiarity, but don't know everything. Definitely not trying to negate you, nor do I seek to take space away from you in the discussion now.
If the board were able to do the kinds of things we discuss here, that includes sound ways to make sure we don't destroy shared resources (tangible or intangible) and make the community more comfortable for people in the ways we discuss, I'd be happy personally.
I know from experience helping to see these things through elsewhere, that it will take some time
| 14:59:52 |
| samrose | problems:
effective moderation is based on promoting positive values and leading by example,
Agree. I am not trying to state that rules alone will solve the problem. But from my experience, they will also help
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| @paperdigits:matrix.org | https://aux.computer/ | 20:04:09 |
 aleksana 🏳️⚧️ (force me to bed after 18:00 UTC) | In reply to @paperdigits:matrix.org
https://aux.computer/ This is more of a dream2nix than dream2nix itself | 20:43:23 |
| aleksana 🏳️⚧️ (force me to bed after 18:00 UTC) | But I would say, let's go and see | 20:43:29 |
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