| 6 Mar 2024 |
 Jonas Chevalier | I was thinking of the conversation before :-p | 18:30:35 |
| Jonas Chevalier | * not at all, I was thinking of the conversation before :-p | 18:33:34 |
 Wanja Hentze | In reply to @raitobezarius:matrix.org
Once engineering is done, minimal operation costs are secured (including human capital), I think the cost of running such a system is marginal has anybody come up with a ballpark estimate for this? | 18:33:42 |
| Wanja Hentze | In reply to @edef1c:matrix.org
i hope i have not been overly inflammatory thus far, but broadly i aim to live by "strong opinions, held lightly" as far as I'm concerned you're 100% fine | 18:33:56 |
 raitobezarius | In reply to @whentze:matrix.org
has anybody come up with a ballpark estimate for this? there were costs above for a Ceph cluster on Hetzner | 18:34:38 |
| raitobezarius | There's nothing about human capital because this is hard | 18:34:44 |
 edef | basically, so far "how do we pay for infra" has been the main question | 18:35:03 |
| raitobezarius | I had a spreadsheet for rudimentary TCO for owned hardware | 18:35:04 |
| edef | because being able to pay people was too obviously out-of-budget | 18:35:19 |
| Wanja Hentze | so infra team is all volunteers? :/ | 18:35:59 |
| edef | like if we had a million bucks a year then i'd build you the whole circus and fully staff it | 18:36:15 |
| edef | but we don't and i can't, we just have people with mysterious motivations who show up, and we don't have enough of those to make it particularly easy on them | 18:37:15 |
| edef | and i name that particular number because $1M isn't "real money" in tech startup land but sounds like it to non-businesspeople | 18:39:56 |
| raitobezarius | In reply to @whentze:matrix.org
so infra team is all volunteers? :/ always has been | 18:40:23 |
| Jonas Chevalier | we're all volunteers | 18:44:36 |
| Jonas Chevalier | how much do you think it would cost to pay everybody involved, including nixpkgs contributions? | 18:45:05 |
| Jonas Chevalier | 100M per year or so? | 18:45:33 |
| edef | eh, not everyone is fulltime | 18:45:56 |
| edef | we have a pretty long tail of small-time contributors | 18:46:09 |
| edef | i think we probably take in seven figures worth of labour tops | 18:47:17 |
| raitobezarius | and if we consider only the infra team or stuff where we need to incentivize people or everything just disappear, this is even less | 18:47:56 |
| edef | infra and security are the "nobody notices or cares you exist, until you fuck up or disappear" departments | 18:48:28 |
| edef | plus some governance stuff | 18:48:59 |
| edef | but broadly i do think this ecosystem creates a lot of value and can create a lot of value, even if value capture is hard | 18:53:10 |
 hexa | In reply to @raitobezarius:matrix.org
always has been waste of a particular good meme posting opportunity | 19:08:24 |
| edef | look, we all have that image living in our minds rent-free, you only need the referent :p | 19:08:48 |
| edef | * look, we all have that image living in our minds rent-free, you only need the reference :p | 19:09:06 |
|  ˈt͡sɛːzaɐ̯ joined the room. | 23:25:50 |
| edef set a profile picture. | 23:28:24 |
 delroth | re: paying people - I'm not convinced that a self-hosted cache needs anyone to be paid to handle day to day ops (I don't view it as any different from other infra-team-managed services, especially if good DR can mitigate risks on day to day ops), but I think the main difference with existing infra work is the availability needs (which are not currently properly defined, but they exist, and I think we can all agree to say the cache hosting has higher availability requirements than anything else we self host) | 23:41:19 |
