| 28 Jun 2021 |
 haugh | not quite | 05:03:52 |
| haugh | I don't know if this was intentional but the use of a proprietary config format prevents people like me from going whole-hog on generating configs before we understand how the system works. Like instead of generating a bunch of separate service units with heredocs (literally the first thing I did), you should be using transients | 05:06:46 |
 Emil Karlson | transients for what? | 05:08:51 |
| haugh | In reply to @gytis-ivaskevicius:matrix.org
yeah, I don't really care about that much. If someone does wish to follow unix - he probably should get rid of stuff like browsers, IDE's, DE's, heck probably Linux kernel as well :D respectful disagree on this; something like a web browser is a pile of different technologies because you don't control both ends of the conversation. Web design would be somehow even more insane if users could roll their own combinations of JS envs and CSS renderers, for example | 05:09:30 |
 Gytis Ivaskevicius | well in terms of browsers contract is html and css between any two systems | 05:10:46 |
| Gytis Ivaskevicius | as a common language js was accepted and used everywhere | 05:11:00 |
| Gytis Ivaskevicius | but then we have extensions, apps, fancy permission handling, etc | 05:11:19 |
| haugh | but for better or worse, modern web development is defined by browser-specific testing | 05:11:22 |
| Emil Karlson | I think at least about 20% of linux users hate what browsers have become | 05:11:41 |
| haugh | no argument there | 05:11:48 |
| haugh | i'm just saying The Unix Philosophy has value but not as a dogma | 05:12:11 |
| Emil Karlson | like it's nice to have access to the prorietary world, but it's sad that it's so complicated that you can have only 2 options | 05:12:22 |
| Emil Karlson | like you can have consistent set of keybindings, except you can't because browser and terminal have conflicting set of defaults | 05:13:15 |
| haugh | In reply to @jkarlson:kapsi.fi
transients for what? I just mean "write transient and template units instead of generating a bunch of hard units", which is encouraged by a proprietary format because it's a slightly higher bar to leaning on your text-hacking tools. This is just my experience | 05:13:26 |
| Emil Karlson | browser keybindings are fixed and shell keybindings you would have to change for each and every system separately | 05:14:02 |
| haugh | poettering has entered the chat | 05:18:13 |
| Emil Karlson | ? | 05:18:29 |
| haugh | service-based web browser when | 05:18:47 |
| Emil Karlson | I think any innovation with browsers that is not directed by mozilla or google is all but impossible | 05:19:28 |
| Emil Karlson | or maybe just google | 05:19:38 |
| haugh | I hope you're wrong but I'm not a FEE. I shouldn't have seized on the web browsers example, I was just trying to say there are some places where TUP is more relevant than others. "thing good" and "thing bad" are too reductive | 05:20:43 |
| Emil Karlson | well kind of saying that browsers are a necessity in certain sense, but being that complex means you can't pick one you like | 05:27:41 |
| Emil Karlson | I think same applies to any project of increased complexity | 05:28:03 |
| Emil Karlson | but I can't even remotely imagine complexity of systemd being even remotely comparable | 05:28:41 |
| Emil Karlson | like it is a project that could be created by a single person | 05:28:58 |
| Emil Karlson | I think the lack of competition is due to systemd being good enough and people not wanting systemd just want something old without features | 05:31:18 |
| Gytis Ivaskevicius | In reply to @haugh:matrix.org
poettering has entered the chat poettering has left the chat: | 05:31:25 |
| Gytis Ivaskevicius | Redacted or Malformed Event | 05:31:28 |
 Roos | :/ | 05:31:50 |
| Emil Karlson | this is not maybe funny, if you are lennart, I have heard that people actually made death threats | 05:32:18 |
