| 28 Jun 2021 |
 Emil Karlson | it seems to me like systemd competition strives to do nothing new or innovative, but I don't really think mainstream wants to go back to that | 03:43:20 |
 antifuchs | Not many of the things that claim to replace it try to do anything more than be a better init, with maybe some parallelism | 03:48:06 |
| antifuchs | * Not many of the things that claim to replace it try to do anything more than be a better init, with maybe some parallelism and process restarts | 03:48:24 |
 haugh | a lot of the systemd resistance I've seen comes from concern about UNIX philosophy, but (at least from my perspective) putting the whole system layer in one place is the main draw | 03:49:04 |
| haugh | I wish they'd used a standard config format though for crying out loud | 03:49:23 |
| haugh | I really love the mounts and sockets functionality which I haven't found anywhere else. | 03:50:08 |
| antifuchs | Same and also the tempdir & user management | 04:10:09 |
 Gytis Ivaskevicius | In reply to @haugh:matrix.org
a lot of the systemd resistance I've seen comes from concern about UNIX philosophy, but (at least from my perspective) putting the whole system layer in one place is the main draw yeah, i dont really care about that much. If you do - you probably should get rid of stuff like browsers, IDE's, DE's, heck probably Linux kernel as well :D | 04:54:41 |
| Gytis Ivaskevicius | What i do dislike that systemd parts that have value on its own are coupled as part of systemd package and you can not compile them without base init | 04:55:35 |
| Gytis Ivaskevicius | In reply to @haugh:matrix.org
a lot of the systemd resistance I've seen comes from concern about UNIX philosophy, but (at least from my perspective) putting the whole system layer in one place is the main draw * yeah, I don't really care about that much. If someone does wish to follow unix - he probably should get rid of stuff like browsers, IDE's, DE's, heck probably Linux kernel as well :D | 04:56:43 |
 Roos | In reply to @haugh:matrix.org
I wish they'd used a standard config format though for crying out loud It's INI files, is it not? | 05:02:02 |
| haugh | not quite | 05:03:52 |
| haugh | I don't know if this was intentional but the use of a proprietary config format prevents people like me from going whole-hog on generating configs before we understand how the system works. Like instead of generating a bunch of separate service units with heredocs (literally the first thing I did), you should be using transients | 05:06:46 |
| Emil Karlson | transients for what? | 05:08:51 |
| haugh | In reply to @gytis-ivaskevicius:matrix.org
yeah, I don't really care about that much. If someone does wish to follow unix - he probably should get rid of stuff like browsers, IDE's, DE's, heck probably Linux kernel as well :D respectful disagree on this; something like a web browser is a pile of different technologies because you don't control both ends of the conversation. Web design would be somehow even more insane if users could roll their own combinations of JS envs and CSS renderers, for example | 05:09:30 |
| Gytis Ivaskevicius | well in terms of browsers contract is html and css between any two systems | 05:10:46 |
| Gytis Ivaskevicius | as a common language js was accepted and used everywhere | 05:11:00 |
| Gytis Ivaskevicius | but then we have extensions, apps, fancy permission handling, etc | 05:11:19 |
| haugh | but for better or worse, modern web development is defined by browser-specific testing | 05:11:22 |
| Emil Karlson | I think at least about 20% of linux users hate what browsers have become | 05:11:41 |
| haugh | no argument there | 05:11:48 |
| haugh | i'm just saying The Unix Philosophy has value but not as a dogma | 05:12:11 |
| Emil Karlson | like it's nice to have access to the prorietary world, but it's sad that it's so complicated that you can have only 2 options | 05:12:22 |
| Emil Karlson | like you can have consistent set of keybindings, except you can't because browser and terminal have conflicting set of defaults | 05:13:15 |
| haugh | In reply to @jkarlson:kapsi.fi
transients for what? I just mean "write transient and template units instead of generating a bunch of hard units", which is encouraged by a proprietary format because it's a slightly higher bar to leaning on your text-hacking tools. This is just my experience | 05:13:26 |
| Emil Karlson | browser keybindings are fixed and shell keybindings you would have to change for each and every system separately | 05:14:02 |
| haugh | poettering has entered the chat | 05:18:13 |
| Emil Karlson | ? | 05:18:29 |
| haugh | service-based web browser when | 05:18:47 |
| Emil Karlson | I think any innovation with browsers that is not directed by mozilla or google is all but impossible | 05:19:28 |
