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1 Jul 2025
@qyliss:fairydust.spaceAlyssa Ross
In reply to @niklaskorz:matrix.org
hm I see, I just wonder where the build time increase could be coming from, the release profiles seem to be unchanged in the past months, so that’s at least not the origin
Rust update perhaps? If it's something unintended it could perhaps be discovered, reported and fixed. Is it bisectable?
08:04:59
@niklaskorz:matrix.orgniklaskorzI hoped to avoid bisecting because of the large build times, but maybe I can speed it up a bit by disabling the check phase 😄 (both buildPhase and checkPhase had an equal increase in build time, so that should suffice)08:06:57
@niklaskorz:matrix.orgniklaskorzwill do and report back08:07:01
@qyliss:fairydust.spaceAlyssa RossWell, if you have a Rust update in range, you could speculate that it's that and test that first rather than doing a whole Nixpkgs bisect08:09:23
@qyliss:fairydust.spaceAlyssa RossWhen I bisect I'm also scanning the commits in range to find likely causes, not always following the midpoint it gives me to test.08:09:59
@niklaskorz:matrix.orgniklaskorzright, thanks! I’ll start with the Rust 1.86 -> 1.87 commit then08:11:22
@dramforever:matrix.orgdramforever

Idea smoke test: Problem: You probably don't understand what on earth the difference between cargoShortTarget, rustcTarget, and rustcTargetSpec is

nix-repl> stdenv.hostPlatform.rust
{
  cargoEnvVarTarget = "AARCH64_UNKNOWN_LINUX_GNU";
  cargoShortTarget = "aarch64-unknown-linux-gnu";
  isNoStdTarget = false;
  platform = { ... };
  rustcTarget = "aarch64-unknown-linux-gnu";
  rustcTargetSpec = "aarch64-unknown-linux-gnu";
}

These are only different if you specify rust.platform, in which case it behaves very counterintuitively:

nix-repl> (lib.systems.elaborate { config = "x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu"; rust.platform = { fake = "json"; }; }).rust
{
  cargoEnvVarTarget = "1P406CKXYZARK9J8L3LSZSJCD1VSDGNL_X86_64_UNKNOWN_LINUX_GNU";
  cargoShortTarget = "1p406ckxyzark9j8l3lszsjcd1vsdgnl-x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu";
  isNoStdTarget = false;
  platform = { ... };
  rustcTarget = "x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu";
  rustcTargetSpec = "/nix/store/1p406ckxyzark9j8l3lszsjcd1vsdgnl-x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu.json";
}

As it stands today ~nobody gets it right. Nixpkgs docs lies about the file name of rustcTargetSpec if it's a JSON. cargoShortTarget, rustcTarget, and rustcTargetSpec are used interchangably everywhere in Nixpkgs.

Idea: cargoShortTarget == rustcTarget. Snag: If there's a JSON spec, cargoShortTarget must be the base name sans extension of the JSON file, and AFAICT can't make a directory with only `lib

Proposal:

Phase 1:

  • Create rustPlatform.targetSpec and rustcPlatform.targetSpecFor (latter being function taking a platform)
  • rustcTarget = cargoShortTarget
  • If rust.platform is set, make rustcTargetSpec error out, else rustcTargetSpec = cargoShortTarget
  • Change docs to ask user to set rust.{cargoShortTarget,platform} (instead of rust.{rustcTarget,platform})
  • Fix every user in Nixpkgs

Phase 2:

  • Deprecate and remove rustcTarget and rustcTargetSpec

See: https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/420797#pullrequestreview-2969405491

14:04:02
@qyliss:fairydust.spaceAlyssa RossWe deliberately moved these out of rustPlatform and into lib.systems14:20:59
@qyliss:fairydust.spaceAlyssa RossAnd I broadly disagree that almost nobody gets it right14:23:27
@dramforever:matrix.orgdramforever how about something that takes a pkgs, like emulator? 14:31:21
@qyliss:fairydust.spaceAlyssa Ross That's a very bad pattern that completely defeats the purpose of lib. Absolutely not a precedent to build on 14:32:08
@dramforever:matrix.orgdramforever then we would need to make either users adapt if they want to support rust.platform, or some way to generate a directory without pkgs 14:34:00
@qyliss:fairydust.spaceAlyssa RossLayering violation14:36:37
@qyliss:fairydust.spaceAlyssa RossThe rust-hypervisor-firmware package is also doing something deeply wrong (reimporting Nixpkgs) and as a result hasn't worked for the majority of time it's been in Nixpkgs. It's not a good example of what we'd like to accommodate. The only reason it was done that way was that at the time our normal Rust compiler couldn't build for embedded targets due to an upstream bug that has since been fixed.14:36:38
@dramforever:matrix.orgdramforever okay let's put aside rust-hypervisor-firmware for now, and focus on why i want to merge rustcTarget and cargoShortTarget 14:41:29
@dramforever:matrix.orgdramforeveryou say that you disagree that almost nobody gets it right?14:41:48
@dramforever:matrix.orgdramforevermaybe i was being hyperbolic but from what i read it seems random on which one users end up going for14:42:36
@niklaskorz:matrix.orgniklaskorz
In reply to @niklaskorz:matrix.org
right, thanks! I’ll start with the Rust 1.86 -> 1.87 commit then
fyi I can't reproduce the long build durations anymore now and I didn't know hydra build durations vary a lot in general, I'll just blame the current heat wave and thermal throttling 🫠
14:43:05
@qyliss:fairydust.spaceAlyssa RossThen let's fix the packages using the wrong one that people might copy and paste from, and improve the documentation to lead people to the right one.14:43:17
@dramforever:matrix.orgdramforever for example, target/${stdenv.hostPlatform.rust.rustcTargetSpec}/ vs target/${stdenv.hostPlatform.rust.cargoShortTarget}/ 14:43:18
@dramforever:matrix.orgdramforever * for example, target/${stdenv.hostPlatform.rust.rustcTarget}/ vs target/${stdenv.hostPlatform.rust.cargoShortTarget}/ 14:43:27
@qyliss:fairydust.spaceAlyssa RossWell that one actually is already clearly documented14:43:37
@dramforever:matrix.orgdramforever or even target/${stdenv.hostPlatform.rust.rustcTargetSpec}/ 14:43:40
@qyliss:fairydust.spaceAlyssa RossSo not sure we can do too much about that. I don't think we can merge them because they're fundamentally different things.14:43:55
@dramforever:matrix.orgdramforever wait, i don't understand what rustcTarget is then 14:46:40
@qyliss:fairydust.spaceAlyssa RossAway from computer for a moment but it's very rare for rustcTarget to be the right thing.14:53:49
@qyliss:fairydust.spaceAlyssa Ross I think "--set=target.${stdenv.hostPlatform.rust.rustcTarget}" would be a correct use of rustcTarget 15:12:43
@qyliss:fairydust.spaceAlyssa Rossin rustc.nix15:12:51
@qyliss:fairydust.spaceAlyssa RossBut I'm getting more confused the more I look at it15:14:33
@qyliss:fairydust.spaceAlyssa RossI would like to understand what the process of configuring the rustc build for a custom target looks like15:16:20

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