| 25 Jun 2021 |
 ash | one should have to go out of their way to get an unstable version of nix directly from the nix repo, because they're working on its development | 03:50:13 |
| ash | having it so easily accessible promotes use of unstable features, which influences workflows and results in dependence on unstable stuff | 03:51:14 |
| ash | maybe i'm wrong. idk | 03:51:19 |
 David Arnold | It's diabolic poitics at play 😁 | 03:55:20 |
 colemickens 🏳️🌈 | Redacted or Malformed Event | 06:39:51 |
| colemickens 🏳️🌈 | Redacted or Malformed Event | 06:40:10 |
| colemickens 🏳️🌈 | Redacted or Malformed Event | 06:42:20 |
| colemickens 🏳️🌈 | same ole flakes FUD | 06:42:45 |
| colemickens 🏳️🌈 | In reply to @kity:kity.wtf
i can barely look at the main nix support channel because there's always someone asking for help with flakes and i hate it maybe that's a sign it addresses a serious, real pain point? | 06:43:40 |
| colemickens 🏳️🌈 | "having it so easily accessible promotes use of unstable features, which influences workflows and results in dependence on unstable stuff" | 06:48:11 |
| colemickens 🏳️🌈 | .... is there an actual example? | 06:48:20 |
 Jez (he/him) | I feel like a big part of the problem is that so much of the knowledge of how nix works and how to use it exists only in the heads of community members | 07:00:33 |
| Jez (he/him) | The documentation is structured such that even if what you want to know is documented, it's really hard to find | 07:01:23 |
| Jez (he/him) | The introductions to flakes that are generally promoted are conceptual introductions that make an argument for established nix-ers why flakes are useful, but don't really go into much detail about how to use them in practice | 07:03:24 |
| ash | In reply to @colemickens:matrix.org
same ole flakes FUD i'm not just spreading fud, i'm concerned about the reliance on unstable features. like i said, i don't have a horse in the flakes race | 07:05:02 |
| ash | i just want new features to go through the proper process | 07:05:23 |
| Jez (he/him) | I wonder if that's also why "nix 3" and flakes are taking so long to stabilise, because so few people understand the whole picture of where they fit in | 07:05:29 |
| Jez (he/him) | What is the proper process? (genuine question as a relative newbie to this community) | 07:06:14 |
| ash | In reply to @jez:petrichor.me
What is the proper process? (genuine question as a relative newbie to this community) the proper process would be finishing the rfc process and getting the rfc merged, then working on an implementation after everyone's satisfied with the details | 07:07:21 |
| ash | what actually happened was the rfc process got sidetracked and benched for later, and eelco went and did an implementation in nix unstable without any rfc | 07:07:55 |
| ash | that was like... almost 2 years ago, and flakes have been in limbo holding back nix releases since | 07:08:49 |
| ash | so that's why i want to rip out the flakes implementation, because it's the way i see to set things right and give it a fresh start through the proper process | 07:12:52 |
| ash | there's compat stuff for people who already (wrongly, imo) rely on it | 07:13:25 |
| ash | i don't consider this an extreme action, i just think it's the correct thing to do with a feature that never should've been there in the first place | 07:14:21 |
| Jez (he/him) | That is a looong time | 07:14:25 |
| ash | don't get me wrong, i have no opinion about whether or not flakes are good or the right step forward or what. when i say it never should have been there, i mean the implementation in mainline nix unstable | 07:15:24 |
| Jez (he/him) | this explains a lot about the state of nix documentation | 07:17:48 |
| Jez (he/him) | people seem to respond to the question "how do i use flakes?" with a link to eelco's article series on tweag.io | 07:18:26 |
| Jez (he/him) | but that's not documentation, it reads like a proposal | 07:18:41 |
| ash | my response is always "don't, because it's an unstable feature and you shouldn't rely on unstable functionality" | 07:19:33 |
