| 23 May 2025 |
 Zhaofeng Li | * right, but there are tools available to prevent spammers from spamming or joining in the first place | 09:11:12 |
 emily | I don't think a return to IRC is too likely. | 09:15:27 |
| emily | people like posting screenshots (yes, a problem with Matrix right now), and don't like getting disconnected. | 09:15:42 |
| emily | and the client space is pretty moribund-seeming these days. | 09:15:53 |
| emily | like IRCCloud seems as good as it was when we moved off freenode. it seems exactly as good as it was, as in it hasn't changed at all | 09:16:08 |
 Gnuxie 💜🐝 | In reply to @k900:0upti.me
Yes and I'm not even convinced it's a good idea it's a really good idea and the only bad thing about it from my perspective is that it is not included in event auth. So doesn't go far enough yet. | 09:17:53 |
| Gnuxie 💜🐝 | it's also fail unsafe atm | 09:18:51 |
| emily | do you not share my concerns? | 09:50:56 |
| Gnuxie 💜🐝 | I didn't read them, sorry | 10:00:51 |
| Gnuxie 💜🐝 | it's a relatively small feature that will take time for servers to adopt yes. but the only have to implement the event forwarding and not the policy server itself. | 10:01:37 |
| Gnuxie 💜🐝 | scanning content I think is out of scope and not useful | 10:01:57 |
| Gnuxie 💜🐝 | so I don't see that as a concern | 10:02:07 |
| Gnuxie 💜🐝 | I'll show why | 10:02:10 |
| Gnuxie 💜🐝 | https://marewolf.me/posts/draupnir/25/02.html#priorities-a-focus-on-on-boarding-users | 10:02:31 |
| Gnuxie 💜🐝 | * | 10:03:49 |
| Gnuxie 💜🐝 | the bigger issue is just proactively getting access to events to stop flooding | 10:04:08 |
| Gnuxie 💜🐝 | from new users | 10:04:17 |
| emily | (these three messages, FWIW) | 10:05:11 |
| emily | ah, but I guess you read them :) | 10:05:19 |
| emily | "but the only have to implement the event forwarding and not the policy server itself" → that's precisely the concern wrt centralization/SPOF right? | 10:05:33 |
| emily | hm, ok. | 10:05:49 |
| emily | then the Matrix blog presentation of the feature confuses me somewhat | 10:05:59 |
| emily | since they explicitly say "In short, they're servers on the internet where you can send events to and have them be checked for spam/illegal imagery/etc." | 10:06:31 |
| Gnuxie 💜🐝 | yeah they intend to use them differently to me I think | 10:06:49 |
| Gnuxie 💜🐝 | and the point is they enable people to make tools for proactive checks | 10:08:00 |
| Gnuxie 💜🐝 | whether those tools are made is something else | 10:08:10 |
| Gnuxie 💜🐝 | since fundamentally it is impossible in matrix atm | 10:08:24 |
| emily | right. well I agree that there needs to be a blocking kind of moderation and that reactive approaches are hopeless, yeah | 10:08:26 |
| Gnuxie 💜🐝 | * since fundamentally it is impossible in matrix atm without policy servers | 10:08:37 |
| emily | in my view, it's not really a good thing for NixOS that rooms are independent of homeserver | 10:08:46 |
