| 12 Aug 2025 |
 K900 | And arguably adds a bunch of new fun issues | 14:48:24 |
 Charles | i am highly doubtful they will do this | 14:48:28 |
 Gnuxie 💜🐝 | regardless of what you think it is or its effect it is a change that should be welcome considering that there haven't been many like that | 14:48:37 |
| K900 | I don't know what a real fix will involve, but it will probably involve some sort of consensus thing | 14:48:40 |
| Charles | so matrix is screwed forever | 14:48:43 |
| Charles | yeah one would hope | 14:49:06 |
| K900 | Because I don't think zero trusting this is actually possible | 14:49:17 |
| K900 | Like, the current design will always have the rollback problem because that's how CRDTs are | 14:49:48 |
| K900 | So you either need an entirely different way of doing state resolution or some sort of common trusted consensus source | 14:50:22 |
| Charles | yeah, basically your options for delta-state CRDTs are for operations to be permanent XOR convergent | 14:50:43 |
| Gnuxie 💜🐝 | well there will be state res V3 in 6months to 1 year. | 14:50:47 |
| K900 | Something I was kinda thinking about was doing a roughtime kind of thing to agree on event ordering that's more than toposort | 14:50:52 |
| K900 | And then you just can't fork state ever | 14:51:16 |
 emily | is this publicly announced anywhere? | 14:51:57 |
| Gnuxie 💜🐝 | of course it isn't x3 | 14:52:05 |
| Charles | yeah what's your source for this lol | 14:52:07 |
| Gnuxie 💜🐝 | talking to SCT | 14:52:31 |
| Charles | i wouldn't trust them as far as i could throw them at this point tbh | 14:52:51 |
| Gnuxie 💜🐝 | well you have trusted them recently? | 14:53:15 |
| Charles | stateres 2.1 was "just a few months away" for literally years | 14:53:21 |
| Charles | huh? | 14:53:38 |
| Gnuxie 💜🐝 | you are a hydra embargoee? | 14:53:49 |
| Charles | i don't know how that implies that i trust them to get anything right | 14:54:02 |
| Charles | or in a timely fashion | 14:54:09 |
| Charles | see also the embargo lift date constantly shifting lol | 14:54:19 |
| Gnuxie 💜🐝 | it shifted for good reason | 14:54:51 |
| Gnuxie 💜🐝 | and it is the first time that they have made protocol changes like this since room versions became a thing | 14:55:09 |
| Charles | if only you knew the things i knew | 14:56:29 |
| Gnuxie 💜🐝 | well you can just tell me | 14:56:44 |
| Charles | i think you would be a lot less enthusiastic about defending matrix | 14:56:46 |
