| 16 Mar 2024 |
|  @rhendric:nixos.dev joined the room. | 20:06:00 |
|  NixOS Moderation Botchanged room power levels. | 20:09:20 |
 hexa | your reaction to patkas message is out of line | 20:09:46 |
 @fractivore:cyberia.club | Yeah, I was with you in thinking this was a fair room to discuss it, but you didn't need to be so rude about it... | 20:15:31 |
 ggpeti | Sorry, I'm allergic to appeal to authority. | 20:16:12 |
| ggpeti | All patka had to do was mute the channel if it bothered him/her | 20:17:35 |
 Gavin R | given the problem set of federated messages systems (they become DAGs which rely on appending to the graph across the network), one would think that this community could have some spin-off (from the main matrix protocol discussion) which could come back into improving the project as a whole | 20:18:01 |
| Gavin R | so i think the borders for what is considered off-topic could be a lot looser | 20:19:01 |
| @fractivore:cyberia.club | Me too, but let's not turn a temporary mute by community mods who thought an argument was about to break out into some act of authoritarianism. You've expressed that you didn't appreciate it, you were in fact being rude and escalating things... I think we're in a good spot to learn from what happened and move on. | 20:19:38 |
| Gavin R | in fact, it could potentially lead to a very innovative homeserver in the nixos community, the principles of which could be imported into the matrix ecosystem at large | 20:20:49 |
| Gavin R | declarative, idempotent functional language and systems can lead to a really beautiful federated systems. let's not ignore that (this community should be talking about the problem set at large) | 20:21:43 |
| @fractivore:cyberia.club | In reply to @gavinrogers:matrix.org
in fact, it could potentially lead to a very innovative homeserver in the nixos community, the principles of which could be imported into the matrix ecosystem at large True, it's just a really huge ask, to make a new protocol. I know at least one person who is working on a novel federated realtime chat protocol, but it's like a huge project. Matrix is already pretty far along. | 20:22:11 |
| Gavin R | as someone said, why move it to #offtopic:matrix.org when we've just been moved from the (new) main room | 20:22:13 |
| Gavin R | matrix needs to make the time to consider these protocol level adjustments. saying it's too late now would be a huge mistake | 20:22:49 |
| @fractivore:cyberia.club | In reply to @gavinrogers:matrix.org
matrix needs to make the time to consider these protocol level adjustments. saying it's too late now would be a huge mistake I see what you're saying, ur rite ur rite | 20:23:24 |
| Gavin R | novel ideas are there for the taking. even some of the ipfs concepts need to be brought on board or the victim of success thing will be real. as someone said, there are a lot of users and potentially soon that will multiply | 20:23:34 |
| Gavin R | to start with, federation works best when the members can validate what code the other members are running. they don't have to be identical, they just have to be (mathematically) provable. this is something we learned in the ceptr (later holochain) project | 20:26:16 |
| Gavin R | guix and nix are the only current projects that can provide that to federated ecosystems (there might be lesser known projects i'm not aware of and i discount holochain because it ... well i'm not going to tell the story but it's a write-off) | 20:27:20 |
| @fractivore:cyberia.club | Personally, my biggest focus when it comes to improving matrix is working on threads. I want to do it, but I feel like I need to learn more about the protocol to really tackle it. If anybody wants to help, maybe we could form a sort of "task force" for threads. | 20:28:10 |
| Gavin R | they seem to work it's just a lack of uptake, people don't interact with the UX | 20:29:09 |
| Gavin R | threads are very important though - but i think the would be best implimented once some kind of proper graph relationship is acknowledged | 20:29:49 |
| @fractivore:cyberia.club | In reply to @gavinrogers:matrix.org
they seem to work it's just a lack of uptake, people don't interact with the UX They're totally unimplemented on a lot of common clients, like fluffychat which uses the "nested replies" fallback. I think a good start would be to get them implemented at all on common clients which don't support them at all yet. | 20:30:48 |
| @fractivore:cyberia.club | In reply to @gavinrogers:matrix.org
threads are very important though - but i think the would be best implimented once some kind of proper graph relationship is acknowledged Can you elaborate more on that "proper graph relationship acknowledgement"? I'm not following. | 20:32:01 |
| Gavin R | when the room split earlier, user jesopo described it quite well | 20:33:13 |
| Gavin R | it's a natural result of having messages exist in a federated world | 20:33:33 |
| Gavin R | the problem is that it's not officially acknowledged. we acknowledge the same problem in our software dependancies and the ceptr project was one place that saw the relationship to message systems | 20:34:51 |
| Gavin R | at least i and one other guy did | 20:35:02 |
| Gavin R | i mean you can solve this problem with Token Ring and etc | 20:36:21 |
| Gavin R | basically make sure that no one gets out of sync | 20:36:32 |
| Gavin R | Token Ring networking didn't scale super well, it was ok for some LANs. i think we have the knowledgebase within the nixos community to build something that works on a DAG | 20:37:17 |
