| 18 Jul 2025 |
 emily | so that it's irrelevant by the time it happens | 17:13:34 |
 Charles | In reply to @f0x:pixie.town
couldn't you always just redact/sorta ignore a tombstone event? Hmm I don't think redactions will render a tombstone ineffectual, it will only redact semantically ignorable fields | 17:16:35 |
| Charles | In reply to @emilazy:matrix.org
...so this means that after all that talk about whether Matrix's sacrifices to have rooms not controlled by one homeserver are worth it, now rooms are going to be controlled by one nameserver Bingo | 17:16:52 |
 [0x4A6F] | Yeah, we might just create new rooms with the admin (Moderation Team) account and migrate from tombstone rooms, when draupnir supports that new room version. | 17:16:51 |
 Cat | Draupnir will most likely support it in time. | 17:19:25 |
 f0x | ah right, so you'd have to really mess with the room state to override it (and that's still ineffectual for everyone that's already followed the upgrade) | 17:19:42 |
| Cat | We got a 3 week extension and Gnuxie is gone for 2 of them on vaccation but even before the vaccation prelim v12 support was added. | 17:19:44 |
| emily | In reply to @f0x:pixie.town
ah right, so you'd have to really mess with the room state to override it (and that's still ineffectual for everyone that's already followed the upgrade) yeah my fear is people not thinking about their absentee founder as a threat at all and then disaster. but tbf I guess you have to proactively defend against that to some extent in current Matrix too | 17:20:32 |
| Charles | In reply to @cat:feline.support
Even tho they are being silly attempting to fuck with room upgrades even more due to that the new room ID format will break the Synapse chicken and Egg dance of creating the room ID for the next itteration of the room before the create event it self so that the create event can refer to the tombstone that points to the new room. Yeah IMO they need to drop this change, many good reasons to keep it, no good reasons to drop it | 17:20:41 |
| Cat | And as long as Gnuxie signs off on it i can merge changes into the project and i think cut releases even (I have the right to github wise i just dont know the pipeline) so like Draupnir is in good hands. | 17:20:44 |
| emily | In reply to @charles:computer.surgery
Bingo I think this chat protocol could be improved somewhat. | 17:21:03 |
| Charles | I personally am interested in other protocols at this point | 17:21:28 |
| emily | In reply to @charles:computer.surgery
Yeah IMO they need to drop this change, many good reasons to keep it, no good reasons to drop it I don't know if the embargo lifted yet and I assume you're on the inside of it so feel free to decline to comment but: in your judgement should NixOS even bother trying to upgrade our rooms? or just wait until a less rushed v13 or something? | 17:22:03 |
| Charles | I think I can reasonably confirm I have insider info but on the second point I think I'll just ask if you saw the update to the blog post | 17:23:15 |
| emily | I did, yeah. I was hoping for more nuance 😅 | 17:23:36 |
| emily | but I guess all relevant nuance is an embargo violation really | 17:23:50 |
| f0x | given nixos was already targeted heavily by the spam attacks, I would be afraid of that same person/group trying to mess with rooms, but probably only when the vuln/poc is actually public | 17:23:52 |
| Charles | That is worth considering for sure | 17:24:20 |
| emily | I don't think we even have a way to upgrade our hundreds of rooms en masse | 17:24:38 |
| emily | We've just been manually doing it when the split brain gets bad enough | 17:24:44 |
| emily | and from @k900:0upti.me's grumbling I get the impression it's been very manual every time | 17:25:10 |
| f0x | ideally Draupnir/*nir could handle it, though not sure if they consider that out of scope | 17:25:27 |
| emily | if we should be thinking about upgrading in a fairly timely manner after disclosure then that's only an option if they ship it quick I guess | 17:26:47 |
| f0x | might need to figure out and automated way for my irc bridge's rooms too, but I don't think the bridge itself even handles room upgrades properly.... ugh | 17:27:09 |
| f0x | * might need to figure out an automated way for my irc bridge's rooms too, but I don't think the bridge itself even handles room upgrades properly.... ugh | 17:27:41 |
| Charles | Yeah bridges are like the number one reason people don't upgrade rooms | 17:27:47 |
| Cat | Im not on the inside of the embargo in any capacity so i have no handcuffs. And dont wait for v13 thats way too far off in the pipeline. | 17:27:55 |
| Cat | Its not out of scope. | 17:28:31 |
| Cat | Especially after the blogpost im writing. | 17:28:38 |
| f0x | oh that's good to hear :) | 17:29:19 |
