| 16 Mar 2024 |
 @piegames:matrix.org | And also a non-started, so no need to discuss that | 19:10:09 |
| @piegames:matrix.org | Zulip though is still not off the table, theoretically speaking | 19:10:28 |
 @fundar:matrix.org | What is non-started? | 19:10:38 |
| @piegames:matrix.org | * And also a non-starter, so no need to discuss that | 19:10:52 |
| @piegames:matrix.org | In reply to @fundar:matrix.org
What is non-started? typo | 19:10:56 |
 @fractivore:cyberia.club | In reply to @fundar:matrix.org
What is non-started? Discord. It's not happening. There is broad community agreement that discord is not an option. | 19:11:01 |
 ggpeti | Very broad indeed | 19:11:12 |
 jesopo | In reply to @fractivore:cyberia.club
Discord has it in their terms of service that they will turn your convos over to the US police, if they so much as ask. Not cool. Not a platform I want to support. i dont like discord and i will advocate against free software projects using it, but.... to be a real company operating in a legal jurisdiction, you do actually have to honor valid legal requests | 19:12:23 |
| ggpeti | That's the thing though, please let's not rely on a company | 19:12:42 |
| jesopo | yes! i totally agree | 19:12:49 |
 dadada (er/ihm) | FYI: It is not difficult to get Zulip notifications for your Zulip instance for free if you are an open source / public interest project. People at our small local Hackerspace did this for a project not too long ago. Just took an email. | 19:12:57 |
| jesopo | In reply to @jesopo:matrix.org
i dont like discord and i will advocate against free software projects using it, but.... to be a real company operating in a legal jurisdiction, you do actually have to honor valid legal requests if you use, say, matrix.org as your matrix homeserver, they are also going to be beholden to valid legal requests. the advantage matrix has in this is you are able to use e2ee, which you cannot do on discord, so there's less things that it's possible for your server host to hand over to police | 19:13:59 |
| ggpeti | If we go zulip I will use it via a matrix bridge anyway and it will be some extra work but I'll do it so I'm fine with it | 19:14:03 |
| dadada (er/ihm) | * FYI: At the moment is not difficult to get Zulip notifications for your Zulip instance for free if you are an open source / public interest project. People at our small local Hackerspace did this for a project not too long ago. Just took an email. | 19:14:52 |
| @fractivore:cyberia.club | In reply to @jesopo:matrix.org
i dont like discord and i will advocate against free software projects using it, but.... to be a real company operating in a legal jurisdiction, you do actually have to honor valid legal requests They do NOT have to be as fully compliant as they are - they just consider it good business strategy.
Final thing about discord - what people perceive as "polish" or "having their shit together" really just means they've prioritized their UI and making their service low-friction, leveraging their centralized nature to do so. Actually they do NOT have their shit together - how can a chat app that isn't actually private (discord employees and some black-hats, let alone government backed actors can likely read your conversations at will due to the lack of E2EE) but they have a nice slick UI that they've invested millions in, complete with ads for their paid service. Matrix is flatly superior technology, architected much more equitably, and a couple of bothersome but largely inconsequential UI bugs don't change that.
| 19:17:18 |
|  Alex Ou joined the room. | 19:17:36 |
| @fractivore:cyberia.club | In reply to @jesopo:matrix.org
i dont like discord and i will advocate against free software projects using it, but.... to be a real company operating in a legal jurisdiction, you do actually have to honor valid legal requests * They do NOT have to be as fully compliant as they are - they just consider it good business strategy.
Final thing about discord - what people perceive as "polish" or "having their shit together" really just means they've prioritized their UI and making their service low-friction, leveraging their centralized nature to do so. Actually they do NOT have their shit together - how can a chat app that isn't actually private (discord employees and some black-hats, let alone government backed actors can likely read your conversations at will due to the lack of E2EE) be considered a good thing? But they have a nice slick UI that they've invested millions in, complete with ads for their paid service. Matrix is flatly superior technology, architected much more equitably, and a couple of bothersome but largely inconsequential UI bugs don't change that.
| 19:17:44 |
| @fundar:matrix.org | Ye but threads work | 19:18:06 |
| @fundar:matrix.org | Checkm8 | 19:18:10 |
| @fractivore:cyberia.club | Zulip, I don't know much about personally, I've never used it. | 19:18:14 |
| ggpeti | Matrix is above 100mil users https://www.thestack.technology/matrix-protocol-users-2023/ | 19:18:59 |
| ggpeti | Has plenty of political backing | 19:19:11 |
| @fractivore:cyberia.club | In reply to @fundar:matrix.org
Ye but threads work Threads will get better eventually if people work on them. | 19:19:13 |
| ggpeti | They were a major actor in DMA | 19:19:17 |
| ggpeti | Matrix is really happening | 19:19:24 |
| ggpeti | It is becoming the email of chat | 19:19:29 |
| ggpeti | Whatsapp is forced to open up to Matrix | 19:19:58 |
| ggpeti | Facebook Messenger is forced to open up to Matrix | 19:20:06 |
| @fundar:matrix.org | In reply to @fractivore:cyberia.club
Threads will get better eventually if people work on them. I dunno, it's been very stagnant. It seems like it's never gonna happen | 19:20:19 |
| jesopo | In reply to @ggpeti:bassin.club
It is becoming the email of chat lol, citation needed | 19:20:28 |
