| 23 May 2025 |
 Zhaofeng Li | * ok, maybe a more productive question is: is it still possible to moderate that (old) room? because none power level changes has "stuck" apparently | 08:57:05 |
 emily | without any of the advantages | 08:57:09 |
 Cat | but if the room is mutated in the right way said snapshot becomes invalid | 08:57:19 |
 K900 | Not in a way that affects 100% of the clients in the room | 08:57:34 |
| Cat | and the reason for this snapshot based aproach is because the shit that actually is going on inside of the homeserver is not something you want a junior client dev to worry about. | 08:58:03 |
| Cat | i dont know if sliding sync has fixed the state resets are invisible over /sync problem. | 08:59:10 |
| Cat | but thats the problem. If state changes in specific ways they wont show up in /sync but will show up in /messages and /state | 08:59:40 |
| Cat | because both those endpoints ignore the snapshots that /sync work on. | 08:59:55 |
| Cat | or its only /state that ignores that system | 09:00:05 |
 @lotte:chir.rs | a reliable way to trigger that is to delete a bunch of rooms on the homeserver that the client is joined in | 09:00:22 |
| Cat | But ye /state always returns the homeservers current perspective on the room at the time of the call. | 09:00:26 |
| @lotte:chir.rs | only way to fix it is to clear cache & reload | 09:00:34 |
| Cat | On what impl? | 09:00:58 |
| Cat | on Synapse if you use the right API the client gets told you left the room. | 09:01:08 |
| @lotte:chir.rs | synapse server, any client | 09:01:09 |
| Cat | Unless its a Element X client. | 09:01:14 |
| @lotte:chir.rs | ideally yes, but it still leads to desyncs | 09:01:33 |
| Cat | Because the rust SDK is bugged. | 09:01:35 |
 @raboof:matrix.org | IRC doesn't have any way to deal with already-sent spam/malware, so that'd still be worse? | 09:01:51 |
| @lotte:chir.rs | my homeserver is 99% bridged chats and so sometimes i clean up | 09:01:58 |
| @lotte:chir.rs | and there, without fail, the client remains in some chats that were deleted | 09:02:21 |
| @lotte:chir.rs | like it does work most of the time but maybe something gets lost if there’s a lot of load somewhere | 09:04:51 |
| Zhaofeng Li | right, but there are tools available to prevent spammers from joining in the first place | 09:10:23 |
| Zhaofeng Li | they are low-tech and not as fancy as matrix, yes, but they seem to work | 09:10:37 |
| Zhaofeng Li | (overflow rooms, bots that grant +v, etc.) | 09:10:59 |
| Zhaofeng Li | * right, but there are tools available to prevent spammers from spamming or joining in the first place | 09:11:12 |
| emily | I don't think a return to IRC is too likely. | 09:15:27 |
| emily | people like posting screenshots (yes, a problem with Matrix right now), and don't like getting disconnected. | 09:15:42 |
| emily | and the client space is pretty moribund-seeming these days. | 09:15:53 |
| emily | like IRCCloud seems as good as it was when we moved off freenode. it seems exactly as good as it was, as in it hasn't changed at all | 09:16:08 |
