| 13 May 2025 |
 Cat | In reply to @k900:0upti.me
Basically being able to DM Draupnir to "knock" That sounds like a completely reasonable solution to that knocking has no gui. To have a knock bot. Be that Draupnir or something else. | 12:42:23 |
 @adam:robins.wtf | And how would a user know about this? | 12:42:44 |
 K900 | As an example, we could have a public room that is set to read-only | 12:43:14 |
| K900 | Containing instructions to DM the knock bot and be invited to the private room | 12:43:25 |
| K900 | But again, I don't care about discoverability right now | 12:43:35 |
 @magic_rb:matrix.redalder.org | NixOS - JOIN HERE FIRST | 12:43:36 |
| K900 | What I care about is not getting the existing rooms spammed to death | 12:43:56 |
| @magic_rb:matrix.redalder.org | writing a knock bot cant be that hard, i dont have the time, but it doesnt seem to bad | 12:44:19 |
| K900 | If we make things discoverable and all people discover are 30 pages of \n mentions and shock content, we did not win | 12:44:24 |
| K900 | Quite the opposite really | 12:44:31 |
| @adam:robins.wtf | I understand that's your focus, but I am worried that we're missing the bigger picture in an effort to combat this spam. And if we can't get what we need, and a user reasonable way, we should seriously consider whether matrix is the right solution. | 12:46:26 |
| @adam:robins.wtf | * I understand that's your focus, but I am worried that we're missing the bigger picture in an effort to combat this spam. And if we can't get what we need, in a user reasonable way, we should seriously consider whether matrix is the right solution. | 12:46:52 |
| K900 | Well if you know another platform that isn't proprietary and has better moderation tools | 12:47:02 |
| K900 | I'm all ears | 12:47:19 |
 truh | Is this community specifically getting targeted or is it the same in other matrix communities?
I'm worried that if it's an automated process with multiple steps, that's actually quite easy for bots to perform but very annoying for regular users. | 12:47:34 |
| K900 | I fully recognize Matrix sucks but we also need to recognize that everything else generally tends to suck more | 12:47:39 |
 emily | I pretty confidently predict that we wouldn't be getting this spam if we used Zulip. I'm not saying that's because Zulip has solved moderation problems that Matrix hasn't but I'm relatively sure the cultural context and lack of federation means that it wouldn't be happening. | 12:47:45 |
| K900 | It's all large communities on Matrix | 12:47:51 |
| K900 | And the attacker is human | 12:48:00 |
| emily | (and I don't think the underlying reasons matter more to us than the practical outcome) | 12:48:04 |
| K900 | There is some level of automation, but it's not spray and pray | 12:48:10 |
| K900 | The attacker is aware of who they're targeting | 12:48:24 |
| K900 | And how effective they are | 12:48:35 |
| emily | (I think the counterargument is that moving off Matrix because of this is "letting the terrorists win", but I sort of think they're already winning.) | 12:48:54 |
| K900 | Zulip has some objective issues like push not working on self-hosted servers | 12:49:48 |
| @adam:robins.wtf | I think we suffer through matrix because it's one of the few non-proprietary solutions. But if it can't even provide us a place for having a publicly available chat, we should consider our options. | 12:49:55 |
| K900 | I feel like a lot of people in the community have been burned by The Governance Zulip Experience | 12:50:11 |
| K900 | Also, Zulip's moderation tools are objectively terrible and a targeted attack would do more damage there | 12:50:33 |
| K900 | Though I do believe that if we move to Zulip, we will not be targeted by this particular attack | 12:50:49 |
| truh | Zulip felt closer to discourse than to matrix/irc tbh | 12:51:01 |
