| 12 Aug 2025 |
 Charles | yes, zulip.com zulip. it can also be selfhosted, no idea what nixos would prefer to do there | 14:30:27 |
 emily | you do need their servers to do push notifs through the app | 14:34:14 |
| emily | but they offer that for self-hosted users too | 14:34:20 |
| emily | and it would be $0 both SaaS and self-hosted for us | 14:34:26 |
| emily | no idea which would be preferable in terms of autonomy and infra burden, but there is at least full export/import both ways, so the lock-in would be minimal | 14:34:56 |
| emily | (self-hosted is also fully FOSS and has I believe equivalent feature set; it's just getting to use their Apple/Google-approved notification servers that has any involvement from the corp attached) | 14:35:37 |
 QuadRadical (Ping) | is zulip actually used for non-corporate stuff? | 14:35:37 |
| emily | Rust uses it | 14:35:45 |
| QuadRadical (Ping) | i dont hear about it very much at all | 14:35:48 |
| QuadRadical (Ping) | hmm oke | 14:36:20 |
 @emma:rory.gay | call me a fangirl or whatever but i'd prefer to stick to matrix personally | 14:36:52 |
| @emma:rory.gay | despite its flaws | 14:37:13 |
 K900 | I like the ambition of Matrix | 14:37:53 |
| K900 | But I don't really trust it to actually ever get there, at this point | 14:38:04 |
| K900 | You basically need a full protocol redesign to fix the thing roomv12 is trying to patch | 14:38:24 |
| K900 | And at that point why call it Matrix | 14:38:32 |
| emily | https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com/ fwiw | 14:39:55 |
 Gnuxie 💜🐝 | bc things changing is good | 14:41:22 |
| Gnuxie 💜🐝 | normally that doesn't happen and that's why things die | 14:41:29 |
| K900 | Is things being owned by Element good though | 14:41:42 |
| Gnuxie 💜🐝 | moving goal posts but obviously not | 14:42:02 |
 Spore | sorry for interrupting, but can I get invited to the main room? | 14:42:25 |
| K900 | #Nix / NixOS should be joinable | 14:42:37 |
| K900 | I don't think I am, honestly | 14:42:44 |
| K900 | My concern with Matrix as an ecosystem has always been, uh, for the lack of a better word, Matthew | 14:43:04 |
| K900 | What I'm trying to say is that it seems there's no real interest in fixing the core of Matrix from the side of Element | 14:44:10 |
| K900 | Who, for better or worse, de facto own the core of Matrix | 14:44:18 |
| K900 | And if you're going to do a full protocol redesign, doing it within current governance feels like it'll just be harder for no real reason | 14:45:13 |
| Charles | MSCs require a certain number of approvals from SCT members and the amount of SCT members that are element employees are such that element can fully steamroll any particular MSC or stall any particular MSC | 14:45:24 |
| QuadRadical (Ping) | i agree matrix is bad, but idk if theres a better option rn | 14:45:48 |
