| 11 Aug 2025 |
 Cat | Tbh in my view while Lee is a villan he did achive a great public service. | 18:17:40 |
 emily | IIRC, it was that or Libera and the judgement call to go all-in on the Matrix switch was made | 18:17:42 |
| emily | I thought it a good idea at the time; in retrospect, I'd rather have had Libera | 18:17:58 |
| Cat | made everyone wake up to that if your community doesnt control its infra and said infra is irreplaceable the damage can be fucking extreme. | 18:18:11 |
 Gnuxie 💜🐝 | ok | 18:18:34 |
| Gnuxie 💜🐝 | sorry, i didn't realise that "us" was specific to nixos | 18:18:50 |
| emily | right :) | 18:19:04 |
| Cat | it also taught everyone that users can usurp admins that try to play stupid games. I mean that IRC network is a ghost town as far as i understand after his actions. | 18:19:19 |
| emily | I mean that if the new Synapse version explodes everything or the new state version explodes everything or someone breaks our rooms before we do the upgrade or something it's conceivable we might end up running to Zulip or something in the same manner | 18:19:30 |
| emily | (I don't think this will actually happen, but you never know) | 18:19:37 |
| emily | there was meaningful attrition in the move to Libera though | 18:20:05 |
| emily | maybe mostly just idle accounts, but enough projects etc. left IRC entirely that I expect it's not just that | 18:20:22 |
| Cat | Yes there was a very large price paid. I meant more in the sense that it proved to everyone that its not just imaginary. You can get your platform killed effectively from pissing of the userbase badly enough. | 18:21:29 |
| emily | it did take quite an extreme amount of trying to piss them off :D | 18:22:00 |
| emily | have to admit watching all of that go down was pretty fun in its own way | 18:22:32 |
| Cat | Its funny how the first draft of my blog post on how communities came to do their moderation structures wrong actually mentioned that mess. | 18:22:51 |
 @magic_rb:matrix.redalder.org | hmpf, this makes me extremely said, my day has been ruined by matrix again | 18:31:47 |
| @magic_rb:matrix.redalder.org | first spam waves, then this shit | 18:32:57 |
| Gnuxie 💜🐝 | chill out | 18:33:45 |
| Gnuxie 💜🐝 | nothing is happening yet | 18:33:49 |
 Charles | that's its secret captain, it's been happening the entire time | 18:34:18 |
| Gnuxie 💜🐝 | if you truely believe that and you are a hydra embargoee i would appreciate a write up | 18:35:17 |
| Charles | i am, and i don't think i'm really at liberty to elaborate | 18:35:43 |
| Charles | unrelated, i would encourage you to read K900's assessment above | 18:36:00 |
| @magic_rb:matrix.redalder.org | In reply to @gnu_ponut:matrix.org
nothing is happening yet im not saying anything is happening, its just very demotivating when the amount of work to maintain a matrix server is already non trival | 18:35:59 |
| @magic_rb:matrix.redalder.org | In reply to @magic_rb:matrix.redalder.org
im not saying anything is happening, its just very demotivating when the amount of work to maintain a matrix server is already non trival so im not saying "run, the world is gonna implode" im saying "my motivation to engage with this platform once again took a hit" | 18:36:47 |
| Gnuxie 💜🐝 | it's true | 18:37:04 |
 [0x4A6F] | Please don't update rooms in the nixos.org spaces. These are update by the moderation/infrastructure team only. NixOS Moderation Bot needs to run with at least draupnir v2.5.1 | 22:12:18 |
 uep | The common thread / element (indecisive pun selection failure) with moving platforms, whether irc or matrix or zulip, and possibly even between rooms as v12 causes fallout, is that there are two forces and a lot of inertia in between:
- some kind of pull, reasons to set up a new platform, change required
- some kind of push, forcing users to make some kind of change
The former is rarely strong enough to draw in enough of the userbase, enough will stay behind that it just amounts to a community split and something about the new platform needs to be really compelling. The latter is always disruptive and damaging and will just push some users away.
| 23:57:47 |
| uep | * The common thread / element (indecisive pun selection failure) with moving platforms, whether irc or matrix or zulip, and possibly even between rooms as v12 causes fallout, is that there are two forces and a lot of inertia in between:
- some kind of pull, reasons to set up a new platform, change required
- some kind of push, forcing users to make some kind of change
The former is rarely strong enough to draw in enough of the userbase, enough will stay behind that it just amounts to a community split and something about the new platform needs to be really compelling. The latter is always disruptive and damaging and if it's forceful enough to have any impact will just push some users away.
| 23:58:49 |
