| 15 Apr 2025 |
 Dandellion | most pieces are in the protocol, no one just ever built the tooling | 23:10:24 |
 uep | we'll happily use it when it's built, as will everyone else suffering the current bullshit | 23:11:03 |
 @emma:rory.gay | the tooling is built into your homeserver | 23:11:21 |
 Cat | i forgot the convo talked about messages per interval not interval even then that whole protection is ancient scrap. | 23:11:31 |
| @emma:rory.gay | (and any homeserver that doesnt implement it simply cant parttake in your rooms) | 23:12:04 |
| Dandellion | I'm not talking about ACLs | 23:12:23 |
| Cat | Emma the question isnt about primitives its about the tooling to effectively use them. | 23:12:26 |
| @emma:rory.gay | neither am i | 23:12:28 |
| @emma:rory.gay | im talking about restricted joins | 23:12:34 |
| @emma:rory.gay | * im talking about restricted joins and knocking | 23:12:43 |
| Cat | Also the primitives are severely lacking anyways theres a reason i have MSCs open to fix them. | 23:12:53 |
| @emma:rory.gay | i love how this doesnt load lol | 23:13:24 |
| @emma:rory.gay | have a few matrix.org foundation rooms to explain how ineffective mjolnir can be (these are sent in seconds): | 23:14:39 |
| @emma:rory.gay | Redacted or Malformed Event | 23:14:42 |
| @emma:rory.gay | oh right, no images | 23:14:47 |
| Dandellion | you could have a nixos-org hosted bot that processes knocks, allowlisting known-good homeservers without public registration, or requiring out of band verification through some oracle. Matrix isn't directly unsuitable for building systems like that. No one just ever did | 23:15:25 |
| @emma:rory.gay | Redacted or Malformed Event | 23:15:27 |
| @emma:rory.gay | oh come on | 23:15:33 |
 amadaluzia[tde] | One must imagine Sisyphus happy | 23:16:04 |
| Dandellion | so we instead only have these reactive ones | 23:16:07 |
| @emma:rory.gay | event_count room_id sender
129,597 !jxlRxnrZCsjpjDubDX:matrix.org 14f73f8cf5370e69:armageddon.undo.it
129,596 !jxlRxnrZCsjpjDubDX:matrix.org d44dabd0d31cec6c:armageddon.undo.it
129,596 !jxlRxnrZCsjpjDubDX:matrix.org 16f7112a9b760748:armageddon.undo.it
129,596 !jxlRxnrZCsjpjDubDX:matrix.org bb24f4dc5b26abe6:armageddon.undo.it
125,863 !jxlRxnrZCsjpjDubDX:matrix.org 97b572281ab1326a:r*ping.thehomeserver.net
124,502 !OGEhHVWSdvArJzumhm:matrix.org 3a286f517f988042:armageddon.undo.it
124,502 !OGEhHVWSdvArJzumhm:matrix.org c99f62a01dd062e1:armageddon.undo.it
120,037 !jxlRxnrZCsjpjDubDX:matrix.org e5e7b4471cf0b048:plsdontputmeon.ignorelist.com
107,097 !MBrxZRUoApYYjmyion:t2bot.io afe72e559f7de1cf:plsdontputmeon.ignorelist.com
90,741 !MBrxZRUoApYYjmyion:t2bot.io 3ae03547ec21d526:plsdontputmeon.ignorelist.com
90,195 !jxlRxnrZCsjpjDubDX:matrix.org 681e5619e89de1ac:plsdontputmeon.ignorelist.com
| 23:16:09 |
| @emma:rory.gay | there | 23:16:11 |
| @emma:rory.gay | had to remove the @'s from the mxids | 23:16:21 |
| uep | rate limits are a limited tool no matter what; you have to exceed them before reactions happen, and by that time damage is done. But you still should be able to use them and react sooner. | 23:16:51 |
| @emma:rory.gay | well, there's a very very easy bypass that i'm not even going to mention | 23:17:26 |
| @emma:rory.gay | its clearly already being abused in public, but still | 23:17:38 |
| @emma:rory.gay | im sure Cat could tell you exactly what happened here | 23:18:10 |
| @emma:rory.gay | because well, all 3 of those rooms ban you if you send more than 5 events per minute | 23:20:04 |
| uep | In reply to @dandellion:dodsorf.as
you could have a nixos-org hosted bot that processes knocks, allowlisting known-good homeservers without public registration, or requiring out of band verification through some oracle. Matrix isn't directly unsuitable for building systems like that. No one just ever did i talked a while ago about join rules on the channels that are "space members only" and then buidling whatever other mechanisms around user validation into space membership. That sounds like a good use of those features. But we still have:
- no implementation of the validation bot that we can Just Use
- no support for spaces in several clients, making it even more confusing for (especially new) end users
| 23:20:18 |
| @emma:rory.gay | on the second point, i'd just ignore that tbh | 23:20:43 |
