| 24 May 2025 |
 emily | I've kind of resigned myself to being a Matrix hater for years at this point but I still hope things get better because a lot of people rely on it and will do even if we move off. | 10:10:16 |
| emily | (but god I would be happy to take Element out of the dock.) | 10:11:08 |
 f0x | In reply to @emilazy:matrix.org
but also this sucks – people can join the unofficial Discords in two clicks. do we really want to cede the ground of a place people can actually quickly ask a Nix question to them? a lot of (project) Discords are also harder to access, either having to wait 10 minutes before you can say something or requiring a phone number linked to the account (not sure how guild specific the latter is) | 10:19:46 |
| emily | right. | 10:20:02 |
| emily | I think that's not true of the Nix Discords, but I haven't been in them so I wouldn't know. | 10:20:09 |
| emily | I'm just saying that's our "competition". I don't think it's strictly a competition but I think it's a deliberate decision that the Discords aren't official and we probably don't want unofficial spaces to be strictly more accessible than official ones. | 10:20:37 |
| emily | previously Matrix's federation has been a boost to the accessibility of our official space because of people being less likely to need to make accounts; compensating somewhat for Matrix's vastly lower popularity than Discord. now it seems like Matrix issues are poised to more than cancel out that federation advantage and make our space less accessible than something with a registration form. | 10:21:56 |
| emily | does Zulip support SSO integrations? could we allow anyone with a Discourse or GitHub account to join without registration? | 10:22:11 |
| emily | yes for GitHub: https://zulip.readthedocs.io/en/latest/production/authentication-methods.html | 10:22:43 |
| emily | and it does SAML/OIDC, so I assume we could reuse Discourse accounts, but that might not matter as much (if you are okay making a Discourse account you are more likely to be okay making one for chat) | 10:23:21 |
| emily | I don't know. I really think we should consider it. if we're going to spend a lot of time setting up a more permanent Matrix entryway, mightn't it be a good idea to try spinning up a demo Zulip and asking the SC what they think? | 10:24:03 |
| emily | (or Mattermost, or whatever.) | 10:24:16 |
 K900 | The big downside for Zulip is no mobile push on selfhosted | 10:24:43 |
| emily |
Google’s and Apple’s security model for mobile push notifications does not allow self-hosted Zulip servers to directly send mobile notifications to the Zulip mobile apps. The Zulip Mobile Push Notification Service solves this problem by forwarding mobile push notifications generated by your server to the Zulip mobile apps.
| 10:25:13 |
| emily | https://zulip.readthedocs.io/en/latest/production/mobile-push-notifications.html | 10:25:16 |
| emily | I think it's okay to rely on a central server for push. | 10:25:21 |
| emily | Matrix clients already do. | 10:25:24 |
| emily | it looks like we can still self-host Zulip. | 10:25:32 |
| emily | maybe that functionality didn't exist previously? | 10:25:47 |
| K900 |
To access the Mobile Push Notification Service, organizations with more than 10 users must upgrade to a paid plan
| 10:26:29 |
| emily | is that going to be an issue? we pay for a lot of stuff | 10:26:52 |
| emily | hmm it's pretty pricey :) | 10:27:05 |
| emily | oh | 10:27:20 |
| emily |
Free Standard plan eligibility
Open-source projects
| 10:27:24 |
| emily | no issue then? | 10:27:34 |
| emily | we wouldn't get custom SSO but I doubt that's important if we have GitHub login. | 10:27:47 |
 Cat | i should note that as far as i know also in Discord land some of the tech we use here on matrix has no equal. | 10:27:49 |
 uep | standard is their cloud | 10:27:54 |
| emily | yes but see above | 10:28:00 |
| emily | oh wait I see what you mean | 10:28:08 |
