| 22 May 2025 |
|  jopejoe1 (4094@epvpn) joined the room. | 07:01:20 |
 Cat | But yes spamming and running into softfailure is indeed a strategy that is employed. | 07:01:41 |
 uep | it came up in the context of the mod bot banning users as well as issuing redacts for image spam etc. If it bans too quickly, its homeserver doesn't send it more events from the banned user, and so the bot never sends redactions to delete some of the images because it never sees them. | 07:02:05 |
| uep | there's some additional integration it can have with the server to get reports of these soft failures and redact those too | 07:02:34 |
| Cat | oh ye thats a known problem. | 07:02:51 |
| Cat | And sadly the whole problem sucks. | 07:02:58 |
| uep | just basic dist sys race condition things | 07:03:06 |
| Cat | Tho soft failure access for the moderation bots is probably going to be made official in Synapse. | 07:03:33 |
 Zhaofeng Li |
get reports of these soft failures and redact those too
interesting, but redacting will still take up storage, right?
| 07:03:38 |
| Zhaofeng Li | *
get reports of these soft failures and redact those too
interesting, but redacting will still take up storage, right?
| 07:03:53 |
| Cat | depending on the size of the original event it will take up less storage. | 07:04:03 |
| uep | event storage, yeah. | 07:04:38 |
| uep | image cache storage is of course an entirely separate problem and there's no garbage collection there | 07:04:58 |
| Zhaofeng Li | that sucks, so they can still DoS, just more slowly | 07:05:11 |
| Cat | Thats where ACL kicks in. | 07:05:26 |
| Cat | ACL can help prevent that problem as ACLs dont give a shit about DAG level matters they act as network level blocks now ofc the ACLs have to be enforced by everyone or else they can leak and well current tooling for spotting leaks sucks as it is close to non existent. | 07:06:31 |
| Zhaofeng Li |
the ACLs have to be enforced by everyone
but now there's no built-in "block together"-like mechanism, right?
| 07:08:19 |
|  ayyz12 joined the room. | 07:08:31 |
| Zhaofeng Li | (I imagine the personal homeservers being the most difficult to get on board with such things) | 07:09:38 |
| Zhaofeng Li | *
the ACLs have to be enforced by everyone
but now there's no built-in "block together"-like mechanism, right? welp, I actually thought it was something like homeserver-level ACLs that block federation entirely
| 07:13:51 |
 f0x | In reply to @uep:matrix.org
image cache storage is of course an entirely separate problem and there's no garbage collection there there is? https://element-hq.github.io/synapse/latest/admin_api/media_admin_api.html#purge-remote-media-api | 07:14:22 |
| Cat | Turning off federation wholesale at room creation is also a thing. | 07:14:55 |
| Cat | But yes you can also enable allow list federation on a room level via ACL. | 07:15:09 |
| Zhaofeng Li | yeah, but it's not really practical | 07:15:42 |
| Zhaofeng Li | I know about the room-level homeserver ACLs, but they seem to me to be less effective than real homeserver bans | 07:16:41 |
| f0x | In reply to @zhaofeng:zhaofeng.li
I know about the room-level homeserver ACLs, but they seem to me to be less effective than real homeserver bans what would be the difference? | 07:18:26 |
| Cat | Matrix doesnt have de federation of that nature and it wont work due to how the protocol works. | 07:19:10 |
 Gnuxie 💜🐝 | In reply to @f0x:pixie.town
what would be the difference? the difference would be huge | 07:19:23 |
| Gnuxie 💜🐝 | lemme get you a link | 07:19:32 |
| Gnuxie 💜🐝 | @f0x:pixie.town https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-spec-proposals/pull/4124 | 07:20:36 |
