| 28 Feb 2024 |
 @delroth:delroth.net | In reply to @elvishjerricco:matrix.org
The copyright infringement filing, from Nintendo of America, states that the Yuzu tool (from developer Tropic Haze LLC) illegally circumvents the software encryption and copyright protection systems of Nintendo Switch titles, and thus facilitates piracy and infringes copyright under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA).
I think it depends on this. In the US, if yuzu is removing DRM, that's definitely illegal. If not, emulators as a whole are probably legal but not entirely clearly. IANAL but that's my understanding.
every emulator for any console more recent than the Nintendo GameCube is "removing DRM" for some definition of "removing DRM", the problem is there's on precedent for how broad "removing DRM" should be and the law is written in the broadest of way with the expectation that the Librarian of Congress sets reasonable expectations | 15:57:49 |
 Nebula | it'll be an endless cycle | 14:31:33 |
| @delroth:delroth.net | In reply to @elvishjerricco:matrix.org
The copyright infringement filing, from Nintendo of America, states that the Yuzu tool (from developer Tropic Haze LLC) illegally circumvents the software encryption and copyright protection systems of Nintendo Switch titles, and thus facilitates piracy and infringes copyright under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA).
I think it depends on this. In the US, if yuzu is removing DRM, that's definitely illegal. If not, emulators as a whole are probably legal but not entirely clearly. IANAL but that's my understanding.
* every emulator for any console more recent than the Nintendo GameCube is "removing DRM" for some definition of "removing DRM", the problem is there's no precedent for how broad "removing DRM" should be and the law is written in the broadest of way with the expectation that the Librarian of Congress sets reasonable expectations | 15:57:57 |
| Nebula | yuzu gets dmca'd -> new emulator based on yuzu pops up -> get's dmcad | 14:32:23 |
| @delroth:delroth.net | * every emulator for any console more recent than the Nintendo GameCube is "removing DRM" for some definition of "removing DRM", the problem is there's no precedent for how broad "removing DRM" should be and the law is written in the broadest of way with the expectation that the Librarian of Congress sets reasonable exceptions | 15:58:01 |
| @delroth:delroth.net | so no, drm removal is not "blatantly illegal", in fact https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2021/10/28/2021-23311/exemption-to-prohibition-on-circumvention-of-copyright-protection-systems-for-access-control lists a bunch of cases where it's specifically allowed, these cases don't include emulation, probably because nobody petitioned the Library of Congress to try and make that call | 15:59:30 |
| @delroth:delroth.net | (happy to take that discussion somewhere else, but in that case stop spewing bad uninformed legal opinions :) ) | 16:00:09 |
| @delroth:delroth.net | * (happy to take that discussion somewhere else, but in that case stop spewing bad uninformed legal opinions here :) ) | 16:00:14 |
 nyanbinary | I wonder if we can build yuzu-ea ourselves in nixpkgs (yuzu mainline is already built with hydra) | 16:03:45 |
| @delroth:delroth.net | is there anything that leads you to think it's not already built by hydra? | 16:05:20 |
 K900 | It should be built already | 16:06:38 |
| K900 | Unless it failed for some weird reason | 16:06:47 |
| nyanbinary | In reply to @delroth:delroth.net
is there anything that leads you to think it's not already built by hydra? https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/blob/nixos-unstable/pkgs/applications/emulators/yuzu/early-access/default.nix#L36 | 16:16:19 |
| nyanbinary | dont we just fetch the zip from pineapple? | 16:16:25 |
| @delroth:delroth.net | why does it matter where the sources are fetched from? | 16:17:09 |
| K900 | In reply to @niko:conduit.rs
https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/blob/nixos-unstable/pkgs/applications/emulators/yuzu/early-access/default.nix#L36 It's fetching the sources, then rehydrating them in a very convoluted way | 16:18:44 |
| K900 | Then building from spruce | 16:18:48 |
| K900 | * Then building from source | 16:18:53 |
| K900 | But it in fact built from source | 16:18:59 |
| nyanbinary | In reply to @k900:0upti.me
Then building from source oo oki im dumb so it contains those optional features that the mainline build has too right? | 16:19:11 |
| K900 | What optional features? | 16:19:23 |
| nyanbinary | 
Download image.png | 16:19:40 |
| nyanbinary | https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/blob/nixos-unstable/pkgs/applications/emulators/yuzu/mainline.nix#L123 | 16:19:51 |
| K900 | Yes | 16:19:59 |
| nyanbinary | oki cool :3 | 16:20:04 |
| K900 | Those features are also enabled in upstream builds though | 16:20:09 |
| nyanbinary | o oki | 16:21:35 |
 @elvishjerricco:matrix.org | In reply to @delroth:delroth.net
every emulator for any console more recent than the Nintendo GameCube is "removing DRM" for some definition of "removing DRM", the problem is there's no precedent for how broad "removing DRM" should be and the law is written in the broadest of way with the expectation that the Librarian of Congress sets reasonable exceptions I thought the emulator typically runs drm-free ROMs, and it's the software that's ripping the ROM and removing its DRM that's doing the illegal thing | 16:21:39 |
 @atemu12:matrix.org | ElvishJerricco: In case of Yuzu, it runs the original firmware to some degree and I think that's what'd doing the decryption. I think there were even plans to run the full firmware UI. | 16:22:56 |
| @delroth:delroth.net |
- no, rarely (not for Wii, not for PSP, not for 3DS, not for Wii U, not for Switch, as far as I know); 2. it doesn't matter, because 17 USC 1201 explicitly calls out "the software strips the DRM" as being the same as "the software is not useful without another piece of software that strips the DRM" for the purpose of section a
| 16:23:01 |
