| 1 Oct 2024 |
|  @nscnt:matrix.org removed their display name nscnt. | 15:23:27 |
| @nscnt:matrix.org left the room. | 15:27:37 |
|  -_o joined the room. | 21:00:32 |
| 3 Oct 2024 |
 raboof | interesting, the NT_GNU_BUILD_ID also differs in https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/issues/346119 . Added that to the 'nixos minimal runtime image' board (https://github.com/orgs/NixOS/projects/30) - it's not yet in there, but it will be ;) | 08:47:04 |
| 4 Oct 2024 |
|  @yusdacra:tchncs.de left the room. | 04:11:59 |
|  dusk changed their profile picture. | 04:41:35 |
| raboof | https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/issues/346119#issuecomment-2392372427 - is this a LLM? It looks plausible and confident but at the same time everything seems slightly wrong/nonactionable. I guess I'll play along and see where it leads, can't hurt 🙂 | 06:15:26 |
 Mindavi | A bit strangely worded for sure, but maybe it's more of a language barrier thing. Idk, it's getting harder to detect those things | 06:18:37 |
 Atemu | I've had an odd interaction with this account too a few days ago. They confidently talk about things that they evidently do not understand but I don't think it's an LLM but rather an experienced hacker who's new to Nix. | 12:04:41 |
| Atemu | * I've had an odd interaction with this account too a few days ago. They confidently talk about things that they evidently do not understand but I don't think it's an LLM but rather an otherwise experienced hacker who's completely new to Nix. | 12:05:18 |
 emily | my LLM sense is pretty tuned and I'm quite confident it's not RLHF'd LLM output | 12:16:07 |
| emily | unmatched ) smiley is used on Russian internet (among others?), so language barrier is likely | 12:16:37 |
| 6 Oct 2024 |
|  Sofie joined the room. | 15:20:38 |
|  @sofo:matrix.org left the room. | 15:20:46 |
| 7 Oct 2024 |
| Sofie | Is there any reason why something like mrustc issn't used to bootstrap rustc in Nixpkgs? | 13:57:55 |
| emily | I think concerns about how slow the bootstrap would be or something. that's not really a reproducible builds thing though, more of a bootstrappable builds thing | 13:59:49 |
| Sofie | There exists this issue in nixpkgs, but its closed https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/issues/229858 | 13:59:53 |
| emily | (do we have a channel for bootstrap?) | 13:59:55 |
| emily | it would be good to do it | 14:00:05 |
| raboof | there's https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/issues/72606 / https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/85542 | 14:02:22 |
| emily | yeah, it's this:
Well the main problem still remains. And it does not look like mrustc is catching up build a new version of rust. It's just not feasible to have this long chain of rust builds for maintainers with commodity hardware. There 28 version of rust that need to be build in order. Guix has long delays in updating to the lastest version. They had rust 1.39 until very recently. If you want to see this happen consider contributing to mrustc.
| 14:03:10 |
| raboof | (https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/issues/229858 was about the 'current' approach not being deterministic, but I don't think we've seen that problem anymore) | 14:03:13 |
| emily | personally, I don't think that objection makes sense if we're working towards switching to the minimal bootstrap by default | 14:03:25 |
| emily | which itself involves absurd grand tours of decades of software history | 14:03:36 |
| * raboof dreams about ca-derivations where the 'long-way' and 'shortcut' builds arrive at the same result, but that's probably too much work to be feasible :) ) | 14:06:37 |
| emily | I think as long as our rustc is reproducible that should already be the case | 14:07:55 |
| emily | it's more a matter of making contributors and Hydra do the whole rigmarole on staging | 14:08:08 |
| emily | anyway, hopefully we get an independent Rust implementation that can bootstrap rustc without a long chain at some point. e.g. https://notgull.net/announcing-dozer/ or something | 14:08:34 |
| emily | but I'd really like to see a source-based bootstrap, personally | 14:08:49 |
|  Sam Lehman changed their profile picture. | 14:24:49 |
