| 26 May 2021 |
 Gytis Ivaskevicius | In reply to @zimbatm:numtide.com
the main reason why bash works well is that the program can be composed from a number of "chunks" for each phases yeah, but really - basically any shell can do that and then some | 10:31:27 |
| Gytis Ivaskevicius | I noted im pretty interested in ion shell https://doc.redox-os.org/ion-manual/html/ Maybe it would be cool to try to build some rewrite of mkderivation just for fun :D | 10:32:26 |
 andi- | If we think about changing stdenv we might as well think about using structured attributes everywhere. Does ION support JSON out of the box? | 10:32:31 |
| Gytis Ivaskevicius | In reply to @andi:kack.it
If we think about changing stdenv we might as well think about using structured attributes everywhere. Does ION support JSON out of the box? i dont think so. Probably nu shell does tho | 10:32:58 |
| Gytis Ivaskevicius | 
Download image.png | 10:33:15 |
| Gytis Ivaskevicius | 👀 | 10:33:19 |
 Jonas Chevalier | it's not a middle finger :) | 10:33:34 |
| andi- | Jonas Chevalier: you might have run into the same issue as I did :D | 10:33:37 |
| Jonas Chevalier | it's supposed to be an index | 10:33:41 |
| Gytis Ivaskevicius | In reply to @andi:kack.it
If we think about changing stdenv we might as well think about using structured attributes everywhere. Does ION support JSON out of the box? on other hand ion shell is quite new - i bet PR with partial jq would be welcome :D | 10:34:08 |
| Gytis Ivaskevicius | I started playing around with their codebase, fixed autocompletion (partially) | 10:34:30 |
| Gytis Ivaskevicius | Really want to get it to shape | 10:34:42 |
| andi- | In reply to @zimbatm:numtide.com
it's supposed to be an index Googling that icon shows middle finger :P | 10:34:47 |
| Jonas Chevalier | oops, my bad | 10:35:12 |
| Jonas Chevalier | ahem :) | 10:35:35 |
| Gytis Ivaskevicius | Do you guys think that it would be worth replacing bash within few years timeline? 🤔 | 10:36:03 |
| andi- | If it provides benefits over just not being bash :D | 10:36:21 |
| Gytis Ivaskevicius | (And honestly i'd love to see some linux disto that is like "fuck posix, and other old standards") | 10:36:51 |
| andi- | If I can write more nix code instead of bash for complex builds. stdenv.doBuild { steps = [ (mkDir "foo") (chDir "foo") (invoke "make") ]; } | 10:37:01 |
| Jonas Chevalier | at the moment we don't have much visibility on how much bash is an overhead to build times | 10:37:02 |
| Gytis Ivaskevicius | In reply to @andi:kack.it
If it provides benefits over just not being bash :D How much value are we talking about? | 10:37:07 |
| Jonas Chevalier | I bet there is a factor of 10 available for small derivations | 10:37:17 |
| Gytis Ivaskevicius | In reply to @zimbatm:numtide.com
I bet there is a factor of 10 available for small derivations oh yeah, in fact maybe small binary or nix builtin should be written for trivial-builders.nix | 10:37:54 |
| andi- | Oh yes | 10:37:56 |
| andi- | When I was working on my package set it became so obvious how slow bash is :/ | 10:38:15 |
| andi- | Simply not having any stdenv was so much fast :D | 10:38:31 |
| andi- | In reply to @gytis-ivaskevicius:matrix.org
How much value are we talking about? I think a guix style benefit would be nice but probably not realistic as they also execute guile within the build. | 10:39:16 |
| Jonas Chevalier | that's another benefit of experimenting with scratchix | 10:39:58 |
| Jonas Chevalier | it allows to play with ideas like that | 10:40:06 |
| Gytis Ivaskevicius | In reply to @andi:kack.it
I think a guix style benefit would be nice but probably not realistic as they also execute guile within the build. if i recall correctly they use the lispy shell which is basically unusable shell and more like proper lispy programming language | 10:40:33 |
