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Nixpkgs Stdenv

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20 Mar 2025
@emilazy:matrix.orgemilyI agree that triage/shepherding would help though, since contributions falling through the cracks is really common throughout the project. unfortunately forgetting about things is the inevitable consequence of trying to balance a huge scope of things falling upon a small number of contributors without avoiding burnout, so I err on the side of having an unreliable SLA over having one fewer person involved in this work entirely :/11:04:55
@philiptaron:matrix.orgPhilip Taron (UTC-8)

I'll echo everyone else and note that regularly scheduled calls are difficult for me, though I aim to make the one today if it happens.

I aim to steward a small number of PRs through -- or leave them in a known state of "these things remain" -- each month. My observation is that steady if slight presence keeps the Nixpkgs train a-rolling. This is basically the same as emily's observation about an "unreliable SLA" -- if there's steady effort somewhere, it's better than bursty attention everywhere, then nowhere.

There are a lot of models of how to maintain something. Some are more authorial and creative. Others are more negative, rejecting complexity and refining and emphasizing proper scope. Yet others are about stewardship and connection to community and people. I fall into the last camp.

15:55:47
@rosscomputerguy:matrix.orgTristan Ross

though I aim to make the one today if it happens.

It is still going to happen, 3 minutes.

15:57:55
@rosscomputerguy:matrix.orgTristan Ross

If the problem is getting PRs reviewed, then one thing that could be done without increasing everybody's workload would be for a volunteer to try to act as a shepherd

I think in this capacity, it would be good if someone does volunteer to do review stuff that there be "office" hours. This would be so the reviewer and PR author could work in real time in tandem. Tom Berek has done this a lot and it's proven to work well it seems.

16:00:12
@rosscomputerguy:matrix.orgTristan Rosshttps://jitsi.lassul.us/nixpkgs-stdenv meeting started here16:01:09
@rosscomputerguy:matrix.orgTristan Rosshttps://pad.lassul.us/k_EnCfiJT6ykaiAaNjIYnA# notes will be here16:02:14
@rosscomputerguy:matrix.orgTristan Ross I really like @[Philip Taron (UTC-8)]'s idea of non-shell builders. It's an interesting concept I feel like we should explore more. I think it could make bootstrapping easier if we didn't need something like coreutils and we could only bootstrap from specific compiler toolchain components we fetch. He also pointed out how Nix itself provides a BusyBox shell so this concept could be flushed out more to where we have the nixpkgs derivation builder bundled inside nix. 17:10:43
@k900:0upti.meK900No17:18:13
@k900:0upti.meK900No no no no no no no17:18:15
@k900:0upti.meK900No17:18:16
@k900:0upti.meK900Stop17:18:17
@k900:0upti.meK900The LAST thing we need is more coupling between Nix and nixpkgs17:18:29
@k900:0upti.meK900Also, no, Nix does not provide a busybox shell17:18:51
@k900:0upti.meK900Nix provides whatever shell it's configured with at build time17:18:59
@k900:0upti.meK900Which in case of Nixpkgs nix is a Nixpkgs shell17:19:09
@k900:0upti.meK900Which makes this whole idea weirdly mutually recursive17:19:17
@k900:0upti.meK900You want easier bootstrapping, we have minimal bootstrap for that17:19:31
@philiptaron:matrix.orgPhilip Taron (UTC-8)(To be clear, this was a "I want to play around with this cursed thing in order to learn" not a serious proposal for how to do it.)17:21:36
@philiptaron:matrix.orgPhilip Taron (UTC-8) * (To be clear, this was a "I want to play around with this cursed thing in order to learn" not a serious proposal for how to do it in nixpkgs production.) 17:22:37
@philiptaron:matrix.orgPhilip Taron (UTC-8)Previous experimentation: https://determinate.systems/posts/nuenv/17:23:23
@rosscomputerguy:matrix.orgTristan RossThere's a reason why I mentioned "concept"17:24:25
@rosscomputerguy:matrix.orgTristan Ross We don't have to fully implement it but it could be an interesting thing to show what is capable 17:24:53
@philiptaron:matrix.orgPhilip Taron (UTC-8)

Other related proposals that involve shipping computational machinery with Nix:

  1. System-agnostic builders
  2. Nix on WASI
  3. libnixstore-pure
17:26:16
@philiptaron:matrix.orgPhilip Taron (UTC-8) Yes, and I believe it's wired through to provide busybox-sandbox-shell specifically. Is that incorrect? 17:34:10
@k900:0upti.meK900Yes, but that is not magically there, it needs to be bootstrapped17:34:59
@k900:0upti.meK900And on whatever host you're bootstrapping from, it can be something else entirely17:35:14
@k900:0upti.meK900So it should not be relied on17:35:18
@rosscomputerguy:matrix.orgTristan RossThat's fair, though for exploring this concept I don't think that'd have an impact with native.17:38:27
@rosscomputerguy:matrix.orgTristan Ross Splitting up lib.systems, likely will be organized into a few different PR's based on what is being touched. Once the feature lands, I'd like to start wiring up the linker to work. 18:42:16
@rosscomputerguy:matrix.orgTristan Ross I've been thinking that it'd be nice to be able to override lib.systems to be able to change a lot of it. Like if someone wants to add a new platform, it could be done there without a PR. It should be possible to implement new platforms with overlays. Obviously, if someone wants to upstream that work then it should be possible. 19:59:32

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