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24 Nov 2024
@paparodeo:matrix.org@paparodeo:matrix.org(happened to have both built)15:48:16
@paparodeo:matrix.org@paparodeo:matrix.org https://github.com/llvm/llvm-project/blob/aafe934c0c0c1d274099228e7e47669770235284/clang/lib/Driver/Driver.cpp#L4131-L4137 should claim compile options for link stage. I am guessing that -nostdlibinc wasn't added to the correct group to get claimed until some change after clang-14 was released. 15:53:03
@p14:matrix.orgp14Good guess: https://github.com/llvm/llvm-project/commit/5b77e752dcd073846b89559d6c0e1a7699e5861515:54:17
@paparodeo:matrix.org@paparodeo:matrix.orgI have an open PR that modifies that code, so was looking at it recently. https://github.com/llvm/llvm-project/pull/11647615:55:00
@emilazy:matrix.orgemilymaybe we can backport that19:22:19
@paparodeo:matrix.org@paparodeo:matrix.orgpatch applies to clang [14-16] will need to be adjusted for 12 & 13 due to failing to patch hunk 2 file 121:45:55
@paparodeo:matrix.org@paparodeo:matrix.org
In reply to @emilazy:matrix.org
maybe we can backport that
backported with: https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/358836 currently building irods with patch. will mark as ready once completed. 		22:40:59
@emilazy:matrix.orgemilysometimes it feels like we're backporting half the commits in LLVM to older versions22:43:03
@rosscomputerguy:matrix.orgTristan Ross
In reply to @emilazy:matrix.org
sometimes it feels like we're backporting half the commits in LLVM to older versions
Well now it should be easier with the common stuff. Getting patches works nicely. 		22:45:23
@emilazy:matrix.orgemilyhopefully it won't be too long until we can just use new LLVMs rather than trying to make old LLVMs into them :)22:47:29
@rosscomputerguy:matrix.orgTristan RossThat's what I'm hoping for 22:50:14
@emilazy:matrix.orgemilyI will probably remove some non-contiguous LLVMs when I get bored22:51:43
@paparodeo:matrix.org@paparodeo:matrix.org14,16,17,18 might be easy to remove though 17-18 haven't been around for that long.22:54:42
@rosscomputerguy:matrix.orgTristan RossI would hold off removing newer LLVM versions 22:55:57
@emilazy:matrix.orgemilyI think things below 18 can go.22:57:14
@emilazy:matrix.orgemily(when not otherwise needed)22:57:20
@emilazy:matrix.orgemilysince 18 has been the default and anyway Darwin has already dealt with the pain of moving off 16.22:57:48
@emilazy:matrix.orgemily honestly even 18 could probably go if the next staging-next goes okay. we've not had that bad a time fixing char_traits stuff 22:59:27
@rosscomputerguy:matrix.orgTristan Ross
In reply to @emilazy:matrix.org
I think things below 18 can go.
Yeah, I agree. It's just things which are relatively newer and it's probably easier to handle conflicts and removing version checks when it's older first. 		23:11:04
@emilazy:matrix.orgemilythe older ones tend to be the harder ones to remove23:12:14
@emilazy:matrix.orgemilysince stuff stuck on very old LLVMs is harder to make work on new ones23:12:23
@rosscomputerguy:matrix.orgTristan RossHmm then we probably will have problems either way23:14:42
@emilazy:matrix.orgemilyI don't think it's that hard to remove version checks for a specific version?23:16:12
@emilazy:matrix.orgemilyit's just a gap23:16:14
@emilazy:matrix.orgemilywe have lots of packages with non-contiguous versions, e.g. Boost.23:16:23
25 Nov 2024
@philiptaron:matrix.orgPhilip Taron (UTC-8)
In reply to @rosscomputerguy:matrix.org
emily John Ericson Philip Taron (UTC-8) Randy Eckenrode & Artturin: have you guys seen this post (https://discourse.nixos.org/t/community-team-updates/56458) should we do a meeting to discuss things to add for a reply to the post or do we just want to message in here?

I'm up for a Zoom or other video meetup.

Here's the list of things I'm tracking in stdenv world.

  1. __structuredAttrs https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/issues/205690. Mostly driven by @wolfgangwalthier. Thank you!
  2. Various improvements to fetchgit,fetchGitHub, etc, mostly around rev vs. tag to increase the expressiveness of the function.
  3. Improvements to nixpkgs configuration options to document and regularize those options (https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/330753, but the PR author has left nixpkgs)
  4. Structured logging (@nix { "action": "msg", "level": "1", "msg": ...}) support in the stdenv. https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/331794
  5. Thorough removal of substituteAll in the nixpkgs codebase: https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/issues/237216
  6. Continued progress on clarifying what the environment is and what guarantees are possible across "releases".
  7. Linters and checkers (like nixpkgs-vet) that assist with in-tree and out-of-tree users to provide diagnostics and migrations for necessary changes.
  8. Breaking apart the knot of bootstrapping on every platform to enable a stdenv that's "bootstrap-free" -- not strangely constrained by bootstrap concerns, but able to be changed without breaking bootstrap.
  9. Making sense of how cross-compilation depends and does not depend on stdenv. (This is a personal goal, since I just don't understand it today.)

There are other small things, but this is the majority effort.

00:21:05
@emilazy:matrix.orgemilywhat do you mean by #8?00:35:36
@rosscomputerguy:matrix.orgTristan Ross
In reply to @philiptaron:matrix.org

I'm up for a Zoom or other video meetup.

Here's the list of things I'm tracking in stdenv world.

  1. __structuredAttrs https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/issues/205690. Mostly driven by @wolfgangwalthier. Thank you!
  2. Various improvements to fetchgit,fetchGitHub, etc, mostly around rev vs. tag to increase the expressiveness of the function.
  3. Improvements to nixpkgs configuration options to document and regularize those options (https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/330753, but the PR author has left nixpkgs)
  4. Structured logging (@nix { "action": "msg", "level": "1", "msg": ...}) support in the stdenv. https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/331794
  5. Thorough removal of substituteAll in the nixpkgs codebase: https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/issues/237216
  6. Continued progress on clarifying what the environment is and what guarantees are possible across "releases".
  7. Linters and checkers (like nixpkgs-vet) that assist with in-tree and out-of-tree users to provide diagnostics and migrations for necessary changes.
  8. Breaking apart the knot of bootstrapping on every platform to enable a stdenv that's "bootstrap-free" -- not strangely constrained by bootstrap concerns, but able to be changed without breaking bootstrap.
  9. Making sense of how cross-compilation depends and does not depend on stdenv. (This is a personal goal, since I just don't understand it today.)

There are other small things, but this is the majority effort.

Ok, we can schedule based on availability. I think there's the crab fit thing which can be used to track availability. 		00:39:25
@rosscomputerguy:matrix.orgTristan RossCould do a meeting over jitsi00:40:33
@philiptaron:matrix.orgPhilip Taron (UTC-8)
In reply to @emilazy:matrix.org
what do you mean by #8?
It’s sort of mixed up with #9. I worked for a short while with John Ericsson on breaking apart the GCC derivations into multiple derivations instead of one giant derivation. Stuff like your patch that needed lib.getExe in order not to break cross compilation. Making sense of what exactly the cc wrapper is and does. 		00:54:54

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