| 8 May 2026 |
 dish [Fox/It/She] | In reply to @siraben:matrix.org
openjdk 17 bootstrap via iced-tea works I've discussed this with jdk maintainers and they're not currently interested in dealing with full source bootstrap atm since they have not enough maintainers for many things, they're currently working on cleaning up a lot of the java ecosystem atm | 18:57:35 |
| dish [Fox/It/She] | discussion in #jvm:nixos.org | 18:57:47 |
| 9 May 2026 |
 Randy Eckenrode | Sadly, Swift is having to give up the source bootstrap. 😕 | 10:54:33 |
| 10 May 2026 |
|  w4tsn changed their profile picture. | 12:08:24 |
| 12 May 2026 |
 siraben | Is trofi on matrix? | 00:39:18 |
| siraben | found them on irc | 00:39:28 |
| 13 May 2026 |
| siraben | prs like https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/519568 are nice but I've been working on the mescc tools recently and they seem like they still need a lot of improvement, they are prone to segfaulting if not used correctly | 20:58:29 |
| siraben | e.g. https://github.com/oriansj/mescc-tools/pull/52 | 20:58:31 |
| siraben | is this a problem given that we use kaem/catm etc. in minimal bootstrap? | 20:58:49 |
| siraben | we can ask mescc-tools to cut a new release | 21:02:28 |
| dish [Fox/It/She] | In reply to @siraben:matrix.org
is this a problem given that we use kaem/catm etc. in minimal bootstrap? not really, the idea is we use early-stage tools for as little as possible before getting to stuff like coreutils | 21:36:47 |
| dish [Fox/It/She] | if there are issues with our usage we should patch the tools or fix our usage but ideally we use them as little as possible | 21:37:13 |
| 4 Aug 2022 |
|  Winter (she/her) joined the room. | 03:27:09 |
|  [0x4A6F] joined the room. | 22:08:01 |
| 6 Aug 2022 |
| Winter (she/her) | Does anyone know where the fact that the Darwin stdenv builds CMake twice comes from? As far as I can tell, it's from stage 0, and then just gets used in the other stages from there. Am I missing something here, is it something with the overrides? It looks like it might be, but then the fact that those are only allowed in the final stage (per booter.nix) (when that doesn't seem true, since then they wouldn't be defined...?) comes up.
(Isn't this the same pattern (defining in one stage and referencing in the others) that makes Glibc only build a limited number of times in the Linux stdenv?) | 08:00:17 |
 trofi | You think cmake should be rebuild less? Or more?
glibc's is probably a bit different as it's a part of stdenv.cc.libc and mainly used by that I would guess. Also, if depends if the package is used or not by other packages in the derivation would affect rebuild count as well.
| 14:59:09 |
| trofi | Looking at stdenv's dep tree I see 2 cmake-boot hashes and one cmake hash: https://dpaste.com/8GGM6P9BF.txt | 15:03:11 |
| Winter (she/her) | In reply to @trofi:matrix.org
You think cmake should be rebuild less? Or more?
glibc's is probably a bit different as it's a part of stdenv.cc.libc and mainly used by that I would guess. Also, if depends if the package is used or not by other packages in the derivation would affect rebuild count as well.
I have no particular opinion, I'm just curious how that happens. | 21:22:09 |
| Winter (she/her) | Oh, for clarification, I was talking about cmake-boot. | 21:22:19 |
| Winter (she/her) | (which is cmake in the stdenv stages) | 21:22:29 |
| Winter (she/her) | see the line i linked | 21:22:36 |
| trofi | AFAIU cmake = cmakeMinimal is only for stage1-4 (first build: bootstrapTools -> cmake-boot in pastebin). Last stage uses cmake as is. Also note that cmakeMinimal is used by zstd (used by final stage, does second build: stage4 -> cmake-boot -> zstd in pastebin). | 21:44:31 |
| trofi | I used the following command to grep through the full depgraph: $ nix-store --query --graph $(nix-instantiate -A stdenv --argstr system x86_64-darwin) | 21:45:39 |
| 10 Aug 2022 |
|  luxus joined the room. | 09:55:36 |
| 17 Aug 2022 |
| trofi | Quiz question: for a final glibc used in nixpkgs all over the place which gcc you think is used to build it on linux? a) Possible answers: gcc from bootstrap tools b) gcc from nixpkgs. | 17:36:21 |
| trofi | You knew :) | 17:39:09 |
 Artturin | obviously it is the more ridiculous answer 🙃 | 17:40:03 |
| trofi | Yeah :) Spoiler: https://dpaste.com/DMD34BUN9.txt | 17:40:23 |
| trofi | * Quiz question: for a final glibc used in nixpkgs all over the place which gcc you think is used to build it on linux? Possible answers: a) gcc from bootstrap tools b) gcc from nixpkgs. | 17:42:06 |
 vcunat | AFAIK it isn't easy to do better. gcc links against glibc. So either somehow try replacing it later (rather hacky, probably) or build gcc twice during bootstrapping (will remain persistently annoying). Or as you suggest, update the bootstrapping tools more often. | 17:49:27 |
