| 6 Mar 2025 |
 Ilan Joselevich (Kranzes) | Don't use flake utils | 03:13:09 |
| Ilan Joselevich (Kranzes) | We've passed those days | 03:13:43 |
 solomon | whats the state of the art? | 03:16:41 |
 tomberek | builtins.mapAttrs | 03:17:35 |
| Ilan Joselevich (Kranzes) | genAttrs or flake parts | 03:46:48 |
|  TrungHieu joined the room. | 10:19:30 |
|  cepheus joined the room. | 16:38:07 |
| cepheus changed their display name from cepheus (Old) to cepheus. | 16:39:30 |
| 7 Mar 2025 |
|  phozzy joined the room. | 11:20:48 |
|  ruhnet joined the room. | 15:37:59 |
|  Adam Neverwas joined the room. | 15:48:53 |
|  Qyriad changed their display name from Qyriad to qyriad. | 16:03:06 |
| Adam Neverwas | Hi hi!
Id need help for flutter developing | 16:21:26 |
| Adam Neverwas | And i wanna know, what would be the best place and mode to install android studio? | 16:59:11 |
|  puffnfresh joined the room. | 22:17:31 |
 elikoga | How is this related to flakes | 23:02:22 |
| elikoga | https://discourse.nixos.org/t/determinate-nix-3-0/61202/92?u=elikoga | 23:02:39 |
|  @illegitimate-egg:matrix.org left the room. | 23:04:11 |
| 8 Mar 2025 |
|  nf changed their profile picture. | 10:43:20 |
|  Gregory Malecha joined the room. | 20:42:15 |
| Qyriad changed their display name from qyriad to Qyriad. | 21:41:03 |
| 9 Mar 2025 |
 osbm | Hello, elikoga
The old nix cli is apparently unusable to these users and once they are using flakes they start to believe they are writing flakes every time they write a single line of nix in their whole project containing a flake.nix
I am trying to understand your point. What exactly is wrong with this? I started using nix in the last year and since every body is recommending it i started using flakes. It feels better to use a generalized entypoint to all your code, instead of /etc/nixos/configuration.nix, shell.nix, default.nix, and channels. And all my nix related projects always use flakes. I dont think i am harming anybody. Do you think that too many new users became too dependent on an experimental feature too fast so that the maintainers cant destructively improve upon the flakes design without facing backlash?
| 13:26:21 |
| elikoga | People refuse to stabilize flakes because agitators shit and piss themselves about minor design decisions
Flakes cli gets distributed in the nix cli (good)
But remains gated behind a flag (bad)
And since it's not part of nix main the communication around this feature gets incredibly confusing. I believe that the v1.0 semantics of flakes are obviously finished and all the arguments I can see going against this are bad-faith, non-users, agitators, that deliberately misrepresent the technical state | 13:29:45 |
| osbm changed their display name from osman bayram to osbm. | 13:30:38 |
| elikoga | Nothing wrong with nix flakes channel being "nix-programming-general" (except for off/on-topic) it's just that agitators don't seem to acknowledge that fact | 13:32:04 |
| osbm | Is there a roadmap/backlog for a feature to stop being an experimental feature? Or are just the discussions stopping this? | 13:34:49 |
| elikoga | In reply to @osmanfbayram:matrix.org
Is there a roadmap/backlog for a feature to stop being an experimental feature? Or are just the discussions stopping this? Oh of course: https://github.com/NixOS/nix/milestone/27
But: "As of yet, we are largely dependent on contributions, so this milestone does not have a due date, or any timeline." | 13:36:27 |
| elikoga | I'd also love to be able to use this channel to discuss stuff like this but it's filled with "nix-programming-general" because lockfile management is one of the features that gates a lot of nix usage | 13:39:40 |
 @ma27:nicht-so.sexy | In reply to @elikoga:matrix.org
People refuse to stabilize flakes because agitators shit and piss themselves about minor design decisions
Flakes cli gets distributed in the nix cli (good)
But remains gated behind a flag (bad)
And since it's not part of nix main the communication around this feature gets incredibly confusing. I believe that the v1.0 semantics of flakes are obviously finished and all the arguments I can see going against this are bad-faith, non-users, agitators, that deliberately misrepresent the technical state so first of all, I strongly disagree that the current issues (flakes being unusable in a monorepo - I still use the old CLI when hacking on nixpkgs; 1000 instances of nixpkgs problem which makes writing flakes with a larger number of inputs pretty painful for me - just to name the two most important issues I have) are actually minor.
the milestone tells me the former thing is somethign the cppnix maintainers also agree. so labelling people as bad-faith agitators if they don't want to stabilize flakes in their current form sounds a bit like an oversimplification tbh. | 14:03:56 |
| elikoga | I'm playing a little bit of devils advocate so let me continue:
The milestone stuff was done following https://github.com/NixOS/rfcs/pull/136 which explicitly outlines as one of it's goals "soothe longstanding tensions"
As it stands, "flakes being unusable in a monorepo" is a phenomenon where the first-order implementation of pure evaluation in flakes (copy source to store) fails to scale properly. I'd love to see more work wrt any workarounds for this (lazy paths) or something like that but I don't care, just use the old interface, which I'm not advocating for depreciation or ripping out.
When it comes to 1000 instances of nixpkgs problem this again reminds me of for example "peerdependencies" of npm. As we can see in the docs: https://docs.npmjs.com/cli/v11/configuring-npm/package-json#peerdependencies , the feature has experienced semantic changes from v2 -> v3 and also from v6 -> v7 to arrive at current day behaviour of npm. I am sure that such iterations are also possible for the nix ecosystem, if only there was any v1 to work with.
| 14:44:04 |
