| 1 Aug 2021 |
 @kraftnix:matrix.org | i still love zfs for my server with a ton of drives + raid requirements, but zfs on root has caused me many issues :/ | 20:41:37 |
 @timdeh:matrix.org | I lost some data to btrfs early on so I've been very reluctant ever since | 20:41:40 |
| @timdeh:matrix.org | I'm holding out for bcachefs | 20:41:58 |
| @kraftnix:matrix.org | In reply to @timdeh:matrix.org
I'm holding out for bcachefs wheres the skeleton meme when i need it? | 20:42:10 |
| @kraftnix:matrix.org | i just want a FS the bells and whistles of ZFS without the pain of ZFS | 20:42:39 |
| @kraftnix:matrix.org | particularly right now what is causing me massive headaches with ZFS is https://github.com/rfjakob/earlyoom/pull/191 | 20:42:59 |
| @timdeh:matrix.org | could you expand on some of the those pain points? I think the only major issue I've run into so far is that when I tried a zram swap it crashed my system because of the zfs arc (or so I assumed at least). | 20:43:20 |
| @timdeh:matrix.org | oh yeah, I guess that's kinda the same issue as I just mentioned 😆 | 20:43:46 |
| @kraftnix:matrix.org | so yeah, basically the same as you, except this regularly causes my VMs to be killed, my running services to be killed. it's a massive pain | 20:43:55 |
 David Arnold (blaggacao) | In reply to @kraftnix:matrix.org
the reason I do the above is because you can't modify /iso/devos, and afaik (unless someone can correct me), there is no reasonable way to install nixos without having some stateful-ness when you boot the ISO, e.g. I need to know what the /dev/disk/by-uuid/ paths are, and those are generated after creating partitions, which makes /iso/devos not ready for install because even if I get a new host ready before creating the iso, i still need to add filesystems etc. after partitioning maybe this can be settled around using well-known labels during formatting? /dev/disk/by-label | 20:44:27 |
| David Arnold (blaggacao) | Still, realpath should be there | 20:44:38 |
| @kraftnix:matrix.org | if i have to tune all my laptops + desktops just so ZFS doesn't nuke my important processes thats a no deal, also you can't really do swap with zfs without deadlocks (issue has been open for yeeears), so thats also a no deal. means you need to provision your disk/pool with a set amount of swap in advance, and then you can never change it! because you can't change zfs pools after creation, its kinda shit | 20:45:42 |
| @kraftnix:matrix.org | In reply to @blaggacao:matrix.org
maybe this can be settled around using well-known labels during formatting? /dev/disk/by-label doesn't work well with ZFS on root... | 20:46:20 |
| @timdeh:matrix.org | well zram swap is just a compressed swap in ram so that's not really the issue. I fixed it by simply drastically reducing the size. I was just trying to get more space out of my RAM 😆 | 20:46:28 |
| @kraftnix:matrix.org | In reply to @blaggacao:matrix.org
maybe this can be settled around using well-known labels during formatting? /dev/disk/by-label * doesn't work well with ZFS on root..
EDIT: ZFS on root is such a massive pain | 20:46:34 |
| @timdeh:matrix.org | but I have 54GB so I may not have run into many of these things just yet. | 20:46:52 |
| @kraftnix:matrix.org | i'm not even trying to get more space out of my RAM, I just want ZFS to give up some ARC space when needed... | 20:47:18 |
| @kraftnix:matrix.org | i have these issues with ZFS on root with a system that has 128GB RAM... | 20:47:29 |
| @timdeh:matrix.org | oh wow | 20:47:43 |
| @timdeh:matrix.org | I mostly work remotely, so that might be why, I haven't really run into a situation where my ram is stressed to close to max | 20:48:00 |
| @kraftnix:matrix.org | it's not even by a stressful event, your RAM will eventually fill, then ZFS will not release some ARC memory, and earlyoom will kill your processes while ARC stays full.. | 20:48:36 |
| @timdeh:matrix.org | It would be nice to be able to fine tune the arc more, but I also like that it's saving writes on my nvme. So I guess it's a tradeoff like everything else | 20:48:51 |
| @timdeh:matrix.org | hmm, my arc never seems to reach more than about half my RAM, or maybe I haven't left my laptop on long enough 😕 | 20:49:33 |
| @kraftnix:matrix.org | i guess im sick of having to make tradeoffs and tune ZFS properly for each system, it's a massive pia, i don't mind tuning for my server with many disks in RAID, but it's such a pain otherwise | 20:49:48 |
| @kraftnix:matrix.org | just run a few local VMs on your laptop while doing nix builds | 20:49:56 |
| @timdeh:matrix.org | yeah I agree, zfs may be overkill without several drives anyway 😆 | 20:50:07 |
| @kraftnix:matrix.org | you also have nasty interactions of ZFS with VMs when you are trying to set resource limits for VMs, ARC can be completely filled by storage for your VM. meaning a VM can take (2GB RAM that you gave it + all your ARC), so you have little control over resource utilisation. | 20:51:33 |
| @kraftnix:matrix.org | death by a thousand cuts | 20:51:57 |
| @kraftnix:matrix.org | In reply to @blaggacao:matrix.org
Still, realpath should be there any ideas about this one? | 20:52:29 |
| @kraftnix:matrix.org | i can access realpath fine in my shell | 20:54:13 |
