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DevOS

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Seeking help and geeking out together on https://github.com/divnix/devos & https://github.com/divnix/digga10 Servers

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15 Oct 2021
@timdeh:matrix.org@timdeh:matrix.orgof course, maybe they made nspawn just to be jerks. Who knows 😅20:29:54
@blaggacao:matrix.orgDavid Arnold (blaggacao)Since there's an open standard, I beleive the latter is true.20:30:24
@kraftnix:matrix.org@kraftnix:matrix.orgnspawn is alright (having used it for quite a while) the overhead is definitely less than running a full systemd-based OS20:30:49
@timdeh:matrix.org@timdeh:matrix.orgWell I just meant that when given the choice, it seems like the systemd devs roll their own solution rather than working with existing standards20:31:29
@kraftnix:matrix.org@kraftnix:matrix.orgthats definitely true20:31:44
@timdeh:matrix.org@timdeh:matrix.org so maybe they could have worked with OCI but chose not to 20:31:44
@kraftnix:matrix.org@kraftnix:matrix.orgthe runtime overheads are actually fairly small (looking at my server atm), my bigger nspawn containers (like matrix, gitea, nextcloud) are using ~120-150MB RAM and ~15-20 extra processes, while a slim container (like openldap) seems fine with 20MB of RAM and 10 processes20:35:52
@blaggacao:matrix.orgDavid Arnold (blaggacao)The runtime overhead isnprobably not the problem, they all do the same thing.20:36:35
@blaggacao:matrix.orgDavid Arnold (blaggacao)The problem is the interface 🙂20:36:42
@blaggacao:matrix.orgDavid Arnold (blaggacao)* The runtime overhead is probably not the problem, they all do the same thing.20:36:57
@kraftnix:matrix.org@kraftnix:matrix.orgthats true, i would totally not use it without nix20:37:21
@blaggacao:matrix.orgDavid Arnold (blaggacao)You can even run VMs on the OCI interface if I'm not completely wrong.20:37:21
@timdeh:matrix.org@timdeh:matrix.orgI think that's what kata-containers are all about isn't it?20:37:43
@blaggacao:matrix.orgDavid Arnold (blaggacao)Or at least the interop between OCI and VMs is close to given.20:37:50
@timdeh:matrix.org@timdeh:matrix.orgsystemd is just annoying when it comes to standards. even their versioning scheme is completely non standard 😅20:38:14
@blaggacao:matrix.orgDavid Arnold (blaggacao)There are VM runtimes, yeah.20:38:17
@blaggacao:matrix.orgDavid Arnold (blaggacao) There can be a nix runtime, too. 20:38:25
@blaggacao:matrix.orgDavid Arnold (blaggacao)Why not?20:38:43
@timdeh:matrix.org@timdeh:matrix.orgunless you wanna start an effort to redefine all the existing NixOS modules from scratch using some other format, then a NixOS runtime is the only viable runtime 😆20:40:02
@timdeh:matrix.org@timdeh:matrix.orgthere is already the aforementioned OCI builder derivation for simple stuff20:40:24
@timdeh:matrix.org@timdeh:matrix.orgAlthough maybe Nix should advertise more how awesome it is at building these containers! Because I think it is probably the best container builder frontend to docker/OCI that exists atm.20:41:10
@blaggacao:matrix.orgDavid Arnold (blaggacao) The category "NixOs runtime" is not really precise. It's more "artifact runtime". 20:48:55
@blaggacao:matrix.orgDavid Arnold (blaggacao)* The category "NixOs runtime" is not really precise: it's more "artifact runtime".20:49:10
@blaggacao:matrix.orgDavid Arnold (blaggacao)NixOs containers are NixOS artifacts.20:49:26
@timdeh:matrix.org@timdeh:matrix.orgwell yeah, I wasn't aiming for exact precision in this context 😛20:49:42
@blaggacao:matrix.orgDavid Arnold (blaggacao) But it's important to avoid the "Nixos-bias" 😆 20:50:05
@timdeh:matrix.org@timdeh:matrix.orgI reserve that brain exhausting exercise for when I actually enter the code editor 🙂20:50:09
@blaggacao:matrix.orgDavid Arnold (blaggacao)So the conclusion is NixosContainer artifacts have no reason to not be OCI compliant artifacts.20:50:43
@blaggacao:matrix.orgDavid Arnold (blaggacao)(no evident [to me] reason)20:50:57
@timdeh:matrix.org@timdeh:matrix.orgIn theory yes20:51:00

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