| 28 Sep 2023 |
 Vladimír Čunát | But I certainly see nothing wrong in that proposal. | 20:01:51 |
| Vladimír Čunát | * But I certainly see nothing wrong with that proposal. | 20:02:01 |
 raitobezarius | Right, but that's because we know that folks can just decide to work on something and make it better, an interesting feedback I have been hearing more and more (including at NixCon) is that sometimes, it is hard to feel yourself empowered on to go there and do something about this. An official role is not necessarily about having any technical power, but sometimes, to have a decisionmaking power or be entrusted with decisions when it comes to a specific thing. | 20:03:00 |
| raitobezarius | During the last release cycle, we tried to push Darwin-related issues to @NixOS/darwin-maintainers if my memory serves well, and we didn't get a great success. Mainly, because I assume there's no one there in that group to care about Darwin from a release management process PoV.
I personally don't own Darwin and I prefer not dealing with it, doing decisionmaking on something you do not necessarily care about is not super easy in general so this has been a frustration for me, I think I was not alone given some revived discussions on Darwin support tiers.
| 20:04:18 |
| raitobezarius | I think an important thing we can do to attract more people are also to take into account that it is important to acknowledge the role of folks who may have fewer privileges than us in the community. | 20:06:28 |
 hexa | I am clueless about how darwin users use nixpkgs. Whether or not that role makes sense should be discussed among the darwin maintainers. | 20:09:40 |
| raitobezarius | I think the discussion in https://discourse.nixos.org/t/darwin-again/29331/69 was the closest thing we had regarding more roles to deal with Darwin maintenance | 20:12:32 |
| raitobezarius | I am not sure how to read the consensus in that room, but I expressed similar arguments already and so far, I don't think anything like NixOS/darwin-core happened after all this time | 20:12:55 |
| raitobezarius | I am not sure if we can even refer to Darwin maintainers except for the most visible ones which expressed themselves in that Discourse post or through their PRs | 20:13:14 |
| Vladimír Čunát | We don't have any similar team for Linux even. | 20:13:33 |
| hexa | I would argue that is because the average linux user cares more about driving the distro, than the average darwin user cares for driving homebrew/nix | 20:17:10 |
| hexa | there is simply no need for linux-core, because we are just a lot of linux users | 20:17:25 |
|  NixOS Moderation Botchanged room power levels. | 20:18:55 |
| Vladimír Čunát | Maybe. In the survey the darwin fraction seemed surprisingly high to me, compared to what it feels like at contribution side. | 20:19:06 |
| NixOS Moderation Botchanged room power levels. | 20:20:18 |
| Vladimír Čunát | Maybe there are ways how to work better with the community, making them more engaged. I feel like a wrong person for that, though. | 20:22:45 |
 trofi | It's a bit easier to contribute from NixOS without fear of getting a bug related to host distribution. Not so much from nix-on-other-linux. I wonder if darwin is in a similar boat. | 20:25:24 |
 Janik (they/them) | In reply to @vcunat:matrix.org
Maybe. In the survey the darwin fraction seemed surprisingly high to me, compared to what it feels like at contribution side. But most Darwin Users typically don't contribute from my experience, would be interesting to get the fastly data and look at how many packages are pulled on Darwin compared to Linux and how that measures up compared to survey participants | 20:42:36 |
 @julienmalka:matrix.org | I think the discussion of having a darwin release manager is interesting but as much as I would like to be part of the release management team, this unfortunately couldn’t be me as I sold my last piece of darwin hardware one week ago | 20:45:00 |
| hexa | * I would argue that is because the average linux user cares more about driving the distro, than the average darwin user cares for driving homebrew/nixpkgs | 20:45:41 |
| 29 Sep 2023 |
| raitobezarius | In reply to @trofi:matrix.org
It's a bit easier to contribute from NixOS without fear of getting a bug related to host distribution. Not so much from nix-on-other-linux. I wonder if darwin is in a similar boat. I think there's some of that, but it's worse in the macOS context, we have to work explicitly against macOS, so if there's a macOS issue that hampers Nix operations, we have to know about it, work on it, etc. | 00:45:40 |
| raitobezarius | Sure, we do not care too much about Debian shooting themselves in the foot when they ship nix-bin as a package and disable sandbox by default and people complains about not having sandboxes. | 00:46:19 |
| raitobezarius | Can I get you alejandrosame and figsoda and lennart to fill https://crab.fit/nixos-2311-release-management-kickoff-959189 ? | 20:47:09 |
| raitobezarius | So we can schedule the first kickoff | 20:47:14 |
| raitobezarius | In the meantime, I strongly encourage anyone of you who didn't yet to read https://nixos.github.io/release-wiki/ | 20:47:33 |
 lennart | In reply to @raitobezarius:matrix.org
Can I get you alejandrosame and figsoda and lennart to fill https://crab.fit/nixos-2311-release-management-kickoff-959189 ? sure, just did; my employer gets ISO audited next week, so the week after is more suitable for me, but trying my best | 20:51:51 |
| raitobezarius | gotcha | 20:52:04 |
| lennart | what timezone is everybody located at? Berlin/Europe for me | 20:53:36 |
 @alejandrosame:matrix.org | I'll be Europe/Berlin until wednesday and then Atlantic/Canary afterwards | 20:55:49 |
| @alejandrosame:matrix.org | In reply to @raitobezarius:matrix.org
Can I get you alejandrosame and figsoda and lennart to fill https://crab.fit/nixos-2311-release-management-kickoff-959189 ? Done | 20:55:55 |
