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Sender	Message	Time
15 Jan 2024
@bzzm3r:matrix.org	When googling for something in the man pages, there are a variety of hosts that come up	22:09:30
@bzzm3r:matrix.org	are there some out of those that are particularly reputable?	22:10:14
infinisil	danielsidhion: bzm3r: https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/tree/master/doc#roles links to `manpage-urls.json`, seems to be mainly systemd links, I can't see much else	23:00:35
infinisil	So I guess the answer is that there's no default for now :)	23:00:53
infinisil	(though there might be some used in various other parts of the docs)	23:01:08
danielsidhion	Yeah, I didn't really know if there was some kind of default. The nixpkgs manual doesn't use that `{manpage}` syntax at all. Guess I'll start using it then.	23:43:43
danielsidhion	My concern isn't in finding some reputable source, but mostly in having a link to the manpages corresponding to the version of the package in nixpkgs	23:44:34
infinisil	Ah yeah that could be a problem. If we want to be fancy and rabbit-holey, we could make Hydra render all manpages from package builds and create some convenient redirects :D	23:58:48
16 Jan 2024
danielsidhion	I'd have to spend a lot of time to figure this out so I added it to my notes to look into this at some point. I think it would be a good improvement to have access to the manpages from nixpkgs directly	00:02:44
@bzzm3r:matrix.org	proofconstruction: do you usually run the Monday meetings?	04:36:06
@qyriad:matrix.org	In reply to @infinisil:matrix.org Ah yeah that could be a problem. If we want to be fancy and rabbit-holey, we could make Hydra render all manpages from package builds and create some convenient redirects :D this would be awesome to have	04:40:00
@bzzm3r:matrix.org	fricklerhandwerk: from the language reference ("lang-ref", https://github.com/NixOS/nix/tree/master/doc), re: nix: `- declarative There is no notion of executing sequential steps. Dependencies between operations are established only through data.` `let ... in` blocks: are these staged/sequenced definitions? similarly: `rec` applied to an attribute set, is there implicit staging/sequencing of definitions? do data dependencies not imply staging/sequencing?	05:06:38
@bzzm3r:matrix.org	I think I understand sufficiently now: "sequencing" here refers to sequencing of computing operations. There is no explicit sequencing of computing operations. Only implicit sequencing of computing operations through data dependencies.	05:26:23
@bzzm3r:matrix.org	* I think I understand sufficiently now: "executing sequential steps" here refers to explicit sequencing of computing operations. There is no explicit sequencing of computing operations. Only implicit sequencing of computing operations through specification of data dependencies.	05:26:55
@bzzm3r:matrix.org	* I think I understand sufficiently now: "executing sequential steps" here refers to explicit sequencing of computing operations. There is no explicit sequencing of computing operations. Only implicit sequencing of computing operations through specification of data dependencies is allowed.	05:45:47
@bzzm3r:matrix.org	* I think I understand sufficiently now: "executing sequential steps" here refers to explicit sequencing of computing operations. There is no explicit sequencing of computing operations. Sequencing of computing operations only happens implicitly through specification of data dependencies.	05:46:09
fricklerhandwerk	In reply to @bzzm3r:matrix.org I think I understand sufficiently now: "executing sequential steps" here refers to explicit sequencing of computing operations. There is no explicit sequencing of computing operations. Sequencing of computing operations only happens implicitly through specification of data dependencies. That’s right, it’s not exactly right. Of course the evaluator does things in some sequence, you just don’t have much control over it. The “executing sequential steps” is an old fragment I took from something or someone. Feel free to suggest a rewording in a PR	07:09:49
fricklerhandwerk	In reply to @bzzm3r:matrix.org I think I understand sufficiently now: "executing sequential steps" here refers to explicit sequencing of computing operations. There is no explicit sequencing of computing operations. Sequencing of computing operations only happens implicitly through specification of data dependencies. * That’s right, it’s not very precise and, if you think too hard about it, potentially misleading. Of course the evaluator does things in some sequence, you just don’t have much control over it. The “executing sequential steps” is an old fragment I took from something or someone. Feel free to suggest a rewording in a PR	07:10:20
fricklerhandwerk	Thinking too hard about stuff usually reveals that it’s all a scam…	07:11:37
@bzzm3r:matrix.org	Sounds good. Currently I'm working on a PR to enable auto-formatting of EBNF in the Nix (reference) manual. (Rather than manually formatting the markdown...)	07:11:38
fricklerhandwerk	In reply to @bzzm3r:matrix.org Sounds good. Currently I'm working on a PR to enable auto-formatting of EBNF in the Nix (reference) manual. (Rather than manually formatting the markdown...) That would be cool. Just writing down the EBNF would be way cooler though because the first is cosmetic while the second is essential.	07:12:48
fricklerhandwerk	In reply to @bzzm3r:matrix.org Sounds good. Currently I'm working on a PR to enable auto-formatting of EBNF in the Nix (reference) manual. (Rather than manually formatting the markdown...) * That would be cool. Just writing down the EBNF in the first place would be way cooler though because the first is cosmetic while the second is essential.	07:12:58
@bzzm3r:matrix.org	In reply to @fricklerhandwerk:matrix.org That would be cool. Just writing down the EBNF in the first place would be way cooler though because the first is cosmetic while the second is essential. I can do that first quite happily! But then it won't live in the docs "properly", as it won't be formatted per the contributing instructions. Perhaps it can just live in a side branch, where it can still receive reviews?	07:13:48
@bzzm3r:matrix.org	I was not thrilled when I found out how the EBNF had to be formatted.	07:14:08
@bzzm3r:matrix.org	So if I can skip that all together for now, I'd be much happier, yes.	07:14:17
fricklerhandwerk	In reply to @bzzm3r:matrix.org I can do that first quite happily! But then it won't live in the docs "properly", as it won't be formatted per the contributing instructions. Perhaps it can just live in a side branch, where it can still receive reviews? There are no real conventions for it, it just started adding stuff using some dreamt-up EBNF syntax from my faulty memory and wrapping it in a block quote for highlighting.	07:15:21
@bzzm3r:matrix.org	(The other thing I was noticing while writing out the EBNF: it would be very, very nice to be able to link between meta-identifiers. So that would be missing in the first pass too, hopefully not to the chagrin of reviewers.)	07:15:28
@bzzm3r:matrix.org	Yeah, the block quotes are what I am referring to: backticking each piece..., putting >	07:16:03
@bzzm3r:matrix.org	Well, I'll give it a go, maybe I was being too lazy.	07:16:11
fricklerhandwerk	In reply to @bzzm3r:matrix.org (The other thing I was noticing while writing out the EBNF: it would be very, very nice to be able to link between meta-identifiers. So that would be missing in the first pass too, hopefully not to the chagrin of reviewers.) All of that would be super nice to have, but it doesn’t matter as long as nothing is written down to begin with. Stressing out about those details just postpones the writing.	07:16:52

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