| 1 Dec 2023 |
 @bzzm3r:matrix.org | In reply to @fricklerhandwerk:matrix.org
What I could really need help with is cleaning up the language reference in the Nix manual. It’s still mostly a long meandering wall of text that needs to be a lot more concise, needs more focused examples, and most importantly syntax patterns for all the constructs. Could you clarify what you mean by "syntax patterns"? Also, just to confirm, you're referring to this? https://nixos.org/manual/nix/unstable/language/ | 04:38:06 |
|  ichbinmatz joined the room. | 04:49:04 |
 fricklerhandwerk | In reply to @bzzm3r:matrix.org
Could you clarify what you mean by "syntax patterns"? Also, just to confirm, you're referring to this? https://nixos.org/manual/nix/unstable/language/ Things like at the top of this document: https://nixos.org/manual/nix/unstable/language/constructs/lookup-path
I don't want to call them grammar because we're still far away from actually formalising any of that
| 09:04:41 |
| fricklerhandwerk | But grammar rules would be the technical term | 09:04:51 |
| fricklerhandwerk | In reply to @ThorHop:matrix.org
Would it be wrong to fire off PR's directly, or should I do it in bulk every now and then? Please do make PRs. Try to make small ones, they're easier to review and get merged quickly. | 09:05:36 |
| fricklerhandwerk | In reply to @ThorHop:matrix.org
Would it be wrong to fire off PR's directly, or should I do it in bulk every now and then? * Please do make PRs. Try to make small ones (both scope and diff), they're easier to review and get merged quickly. | 09:05:58 |
|  moritz.hedtke set their display name to Moritz Hedtke. | 11:08:07 |
| 2 Dec 2023 |
|  mao_tse-tung joined the room. | 04:30:05 |
| @bzzm3r:matrix.org | In reply to @fricklerhandwerk:matrix.org
Things like at the top of this document: https://nixos.org/manual/nix/unstable/language/constructs/lookup-path
I don't want to call them grammar because we're still far away from actually formalising any of that
ah cool, so a little BNF like thing | 04:33:51 |
 asymmetric | this is kinda neat https://landscape.nixlang.wiki/ | 11:33:10 |
| @bzzm3r:matrix.org | ran nix-shell in nixpkgs/docs/ a while....still compiling 🤣 | 23:13:54 |
| @bzzm3r:matrix.org | my guess is that....oh, yeah | 23:14:05 |
| @bzzm3r:matrix.org | i think i know why. i forgot to set npins up | 23:14:23 |
| @bzzm3r:matrix.org | No, I don't think that's it. The shell uses the parent nixpkgs repo as its nixpkgs...which causes my system to have to work quite hard, I suppose because build artifacts for master are not yet up on cachix? 🤔 | 23:33:59 |
| @bzzm3r:matrix.org | Not entirely clear on that point for now, but I have a workaround. | 23:34:38 |
| 3 Dec 2023 |
| @bzzm3r:matrix.org | https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/271797 | 01:12:09 |
| @bzzm3r:matrix.org | (i'm not actually sure if it's useful, but...nothing lost, i suppose, in seeing if there is interest) | 02:39:12 |
|  @ThorHop:matrix.org changed their display name from hopland (valorent vicky) to hopland (meticulous montesquieu). | 14:08:33 |
| 4 Dec 2023 |
|  ibizaman joined the room. | 17:42:34 |
| 5 Dec 2023 |
|  @federicodschonborn:matrix.org changed their profile picture. | 00:38:12 |
| @bzzm3r:matrix.org | hey docs team, i'm continuing to dig deep. currently just finished making my own mkShell implementation that isn't "bash focused" ([this SO answer]((per: https://stackoverflow.com/a/71112117/3486684)) partially gave me the hint, but also motivated by wanting to not use direnv) | 05:15:44 |
| @bzzm3r:matrix.org | I've been collating various little fixes/clarifications to the stdenv chapter as i did this, so i'll probably PR them all for consideration too | 05:16:25 |
| @bzzm3r:matrix.org | one question I am left with, ultimately, however is: why env vars? why do we end up storing stuff like builder, shellHook, *Phase as environment variables for shells? | 05:17:04 |
| @bzzm3r:matrix.org | why not something less volatile/touchy? for example: files. files in the store? | 05:17:48 |
| @bzzm3r:matrix.org | * hey docs team, i'm continuing to dig deep. currently just finished making my own mkShell implementation that isn't "bash focused" (this SO answer partially gave me the hint, but also motivated by wanting to not use direnv) | 05:25:09 |
| @bzzm3r:matrix.org | if we had a suitable "arithmetic" for "environment variable files", would we be able to replace env vars with such files? such an "arithmetic" i suppose would consist of operations like:
- merging two environment variables: most of the times, this will be an 'override' operation depending on the "type" of the environment variable (much like what happens in attribute sets, heh...oh wait...
| 05:26:19 |
| @bzzm3r:matrix.org | sorry, instead of files, why not store "environment variables" in a nix expression (which i guess is stored in a file) which produces an attribute set, whose attributes are the environment variables in a given attribute? | 05:27:09 |
| @bzzm3r:matrix.org | okay, so with depending on the type of the environment variable (perhaps set by the user?) we'd have operations such as:
- overriding (i.e. where
envVarA * envVarB == envVarB)
- concatenating (i.e. where
envVarA * envVarB == envVarA + envVarB)
- structural(?) merging, i.e. where
envVarA * envVarB == { A = envVarA; B = envVarB }
- list(?) merging, i.e. where
envVarA * envVarB == [ envVarA envVarB ]
and these operations would help us "join" environments (attribute sets whose attributes are environment variables)?
| 05:33:31 |
| @bzzm3r:matrix.org | * okay, so with on the type of the environment variables (perhaps set by the user?) involved we'd have operations such as:
- overriding (i.e. where
envVarA * envVarB == envVarB)
- concatenating (i.e. where
envVarA * envVarB == envVarA + envVarB)
- structural(?) merging, i.e. where
envVarA * envVarB == { A = envVarA; B = envVarB }
- list(?) merging, i.e. where
envVarA * envVarB == [ envVarA envVarB ]
and these operations would help us "join" environments (attribute sets whose attributes are environment variables)?
| 05:33:57 |
| @bzzm3r:matrix.org | * okay, so with on the type of the environment variables (perhaps set by the user?) involved we'd have operations such as:
- overriding (i.e. where
envVarA * envVarB == envVarB)
- string concatenation (i.e. where
envVarA * envVarB == envVarA + envVarB)
- attribute set union, i.e. where
envVarA * envVarB == { A = envVarA; B = envVarB }
- list concatenation, i.e. where
envVarA * envVarB == [ envVarA envVarB ]
and these operations would help us "join" environments (attribute sets whose attributes are environment variables)?
| 05:35:33 |
