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Nix Documentation

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Discussion about documentation improvements around the Nix ecosystem79 Servers

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7 Mar 2024
@philiptaron:matrix.orgPhilip Taron (UTC-8)
In reply to @jade_:matrix.org
subsystem seems like the absolute cleanest way of doing this tbqh, but putting PATH stuff in a drop in for sshd_config somewhere would also work
* Do you see a way of doing a drop-in style config? sshd_config isn't making me see any. I agree after reading the docs on subsystem that a nix or nix-daemon subsystem would be 🔥
22:14:50
@jade_:matrix.org@jade_:matrix.orgbut i am guessing it is a distro thing maybe?22:15:04
@philiptaron:matrix.orgPhilip Taron (UTC-8)That would be super lame.22:15:14
@philiptaron:matrix.orgPhilip Taron (UTC-8)

Of course it is: https://manpages.debian.org/unstable/openssh-server/sshd_config.5.en.html

Note that the Debian openssh-server package sets several options as standard in /etc/ssh/sshd_config which are not the default in sshd(8):

Include /etc/ssh/sshd_config.d/*.conf
22:23:46
@jade_:matrix.org@jade_:matrix.orgfixing bad distro decisions in the installer seems a bit questionable, because of peoples jank configuration management systems or suchlike22:36:32
@philiptaron:matrix.orgPhilip Taron (UTC-8)yeah, running a completely separate sshd seems more kosher to me.23:00:30
@pederbs:pvv.ntnu.nopbsds joined the room.23:13:13
@pederbs:pvv.ntnu.nopbsdsi'm looking at a doc PR which has a 23.11 backport label. Is it common to backport doc fixups?23:14:07
8 Mar 2024
@pennae:matrix.eno.space@pennae:matrix.eno.space joined the room.02:33:33
@pennae:matrix.eno.space@pennae:matrix.eno.space

so re: https://discourse.nixos.org/t/2024-03-07-documentation-team-meeting-notes-112/40963

@danielsidhion: Evaluating frameworks that could do multi-page renders for the Nixpkgs/NixOS manuals, making sure all necessary extensions and more are supported

is this about presentation frameworks for rendered outputs, or for actual splitting? because actual splitting has been there from day one (html:into-file), which we feel is being forgotten on a weekly basis

02:35:06
@infinisil:matrix.orginfinisil Ping danielsidhion Johannes Kirschbauer @hsjobeki ^ 02:41:52
@infinisil:matrix.orginfinisilHaven't seen it often, but I guess there's no problem with it if it makes sense02:43:11
@pennae:matrix.eno.space@pennae:matrix.eno.space like, nrd exists for the express purpose of creating manuals at least as useful as docbook was, with xrefs from modules to options etc, and not create totally garbage manpage output like current nix does. the syntax extension are icing 02:43:13
@pennae:matrix.eno.space@pennae:matrix.eno.spacewe've recently been told that epub support is something at least a few still want, the infra behind html:into-file was with the express purpose of easily allowing any level of detail of splitting so you can make epub happen very easily. (it's not wired up for that right now, but it's like five lines of patch to do)02:44:41
@johannes.kirschbauer:scs.ems.host@johannes.kirschbauer:scs.ems.host

I understand the frustration you're experiencing, especially considering the significant effort you've invested into the project.

However, Danielsidhion and I are currently exploring alternative options because we're trying to providing the best possible experience for our users.

This sometimes entails re-thinking our current approach. Adopting an off-the-shelf rendering framework that offers customization options could significantly enhance user-friendliness while reducing complexity and maintenance work. Daniel has a list of needed features like page search, intuitive navigation, handling cross references, md plugins, live editing etc, ultimately improving the overall user experience.

I think we might need an RFC if we really want to migrate anyways. This would also allow potential epub users to show up.

07:52:41
@johannes.kirschbauer:scs.ems.host@johannes.kirschbauer:scs.ems.host * I understand the frustration you're experiencing, especially considering the significant effort you've invested into nrd.
However, Danielsidhion and I are currently exploring alternative options because we're trying to providing the best possible experience for our users.
This sometimes entails re-thinking our current approach. Adopting an off-the-shelf rendering framework that offers customization options could significantly enhance user-friendliness while reducing complexity and maintenance work. Daniel has a list of needed features like page search, intuitive navigation, handling cross references, md plugins, live editing etc, ultimately improving the overall user experience.
I think we might need an RFC if we really want to migrate anyways. This would also allow potential epub users to show up.
07:53:42
@johannes.kirschbauer:scs.ems.host@johannes.kirschbauer:scs.ems.host * I understand the frustration you're experiencing, especially considering the significant effort you've invested into nrd.
However, Danielsidhion and I are currently exploring alternative options because we're trying to providing the best possible experience for our users.
This sometimes entails re-thinking our current approach. Adopting an off-the-shelf rendering framework that offers customization options could significantly enhance user-friendliness while reducing complexity and maintenance work. Daniel has a list of needed features like page search, intuitive navigation, handling cross references, md plugins, live editing etc, ultimately improving the overall user experience.
I think we might need an RFC if we really want to migrate anyways. This would also allow potential epub users to show up. 07:54:32
@pennae:matrix.eno.space@pennae:matrix.eno.spacealso don't forget that manpages exist.07:55:24
@pennae:matrix.eno.space@pennae:matrix.eno.spacenix regressed horrifically on its manpages, if you do the same you will do so much more damage than live editing or flashier navigation can give you07:56:23
@pennae:matrix.eno.space@pennae:matrix.eno.spacealso consider that nixos-search exists and would do rather better with richer xref medatadata rather than stuff that mostly works in html-only-and-maybe-pdf formats?07:57:51
@pennae:matrix.eno.space@pennae:matrix.eno.space the reason we didn't push for using eg pandoc to generate the docs is that pandoc (and all other frameworks we've looked at then) fails at least one of those tests, and we've already regressed on things to make even that much happen 07:59:08
@jade_:matrix.org@jade_:matrix.org It seems borderline absurd to assume that there exists an off the shelf solution that actually has proper interactions with nix and consideration of anything that is not a web browser. Have you considered taking the nrd output and using it in your pipeline instead of trying to reinvent it, so we actually own the markup parser and such? 07:59:21
@pennae:matrix.eno.space@pennae:matrix.eno.space or, as nrd was intended, change nrd to match the needs 07:59:47
@pennae:matrix.eno.space@pennae:matrix.eno.space (we also find it somewhat backhanded to come up with live editing again when that was already hacked into place and not even possible before the md workflow really took off) 08:07:44
@pennae:matrix.eno.space@pennae:matrix.eno.spacelike, the root problem with our docs isn't tooling support. switching out tooling again will only bind resources that could've been used for something that actually improves that status quo?08:08:54
@infinisil:matrix.orginfinisil
In reply to @jade_:matrix.org
It seems borderline absurd to assume that there exists an off the shelf solution that actually has proper interactions with nix and consideration of anything that is not a web browser. Have you considered taking the nrd output and using it in your pipeline instead of trying to reinvent it, so we actually own the markup parser and such?
Afaik there's nothing Nix-specific about nixos-render-docs at least
09:45:49
@infinisil:matrix.orginfinisil
In reply to @pennae:matrix.eno.space
like, the root problem with our docs isn't tooling support. switching out tooling again will only bind resources that could've been used for something that actually improves that status quo?
I'd say it's a problem that we use different tooling for different projects. I guess it would make sense to try and see if nixos-render-docs could be used throughout though (such as for Nix and nix.dev).
09:48:07
@pennae:matrix.eno.space@pennae:matrix.eno.space not nix-specific, but nixpkgs/nixos-specific very much so. like manpage export, integration with the option system, crossreferencing, even performance optimizations needed to generate such huge documents as the nixos manual 09:48:23
@pennae:matrix.eno.space@pennae:matrix.eno.space
In reply to @infinisil:matrix.org
I'd say it's a problem that we use different tooling for different projects. I guess it would make sense to try and see if nixos-render-docs could be used throughout though (such as for Nix and nix.dev).
we did have that aspiration before we burned out on it all
09:48:54
@infinisil:matrix.orginfinisil
In reply to @pennae:matrix.eno.space
not nix-specific, but nixpkgs/nixos-specific very much so. like manpage export, integration with the option system, crossreferencing, even performance optimizations needed to generate such huge documents as the nixos manual
Integration with the option system sounds very interesting, can you link to that?
09:49:15

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