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Nix Documentation

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Discussion about documentation improvements around the Nix ecosystem86 Servers

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6 Aug 2022
@Ericson2314:matrix.orgJohn Ericsonthat is how all source code wroks18:02:39
@Ericson2314:matrix.orgJohn Ericson * that is how all source code works18:02:42
@Ericson2314:matrix.orgJohn Ericson more broadly I am trying to write the reference 18:02:53
@Ericson2314:matrix.orgJohn Ericsonwhich includes all the things without deciding what is more important or not18:03:05
@Ericson2314:matrix.orgJohn Ericsonthen separately people can debate what the right practical guides (top half of the documentation quadrant) should be18:03:45
@Ericson2314:matrix.orgJohn Ericsonbut trying to write curated guides were the underlying info is just recalled from memory (no reference to fall back on) feel to me like quite difficult18:04:39
@tpw_rules:matrix.orgtpw_rulesokay, that makes sense18:04:54
@Ericson2314:matrix.orgJohn Ericson:)18:05:03
@tpw_rules:matrix.orgtpw_rulesmight be rushing things in my head a bit18:05:05
@Ericson2314:matrix.orgJohn Ericson everyone wants to write tutorials because that is where the need is 18:05:24
@Ericson2314:matrix.orgJohn Ericsonbut I think the "yak shave" of a good complete reference will pay off pretty quickly18:05:39
@Ericson2314:matrix.orgJohn Ericsoneven though it does feel like a distraction up front18:05:49
@tpw_rules:matrix.orgtpw_rulesyes, that's why i was excited about fricklerhandwerk's just-merged commit. but i feel like the ordering of the reference material is important too18:06:26
@tpw_rules:matrix.orgtpw_rulesmaybe it's because i and all my colleagues are engineers. i don't care so much or know about FP theory. i just want a nice list of the words nix uses and how they relate18:07:12
@tpw_rules:matrix.orgtpw_rulesbut on the other hand, a lot of the existing nix material feels like what you said: "a big bag of special cases with the underlying theme left as an exercise to the reader"18:07:44
@tpw_rules:matrix.orgtpw_rules(and tooling...)18:07:48
@tpw_rules:matrix.orgtpw_rulesis that just the nature of nix? should the Grand Unified Theory be at the end of the reference?18:09:00
@Ericson2314:matrix.orgJohn Ericsonoh oops20:21:07
@Ericson2314:matrix.orgJohn Ericsonmore grand unified theory sure, and more trying to get upstream stuff to think about us so there is less "no one anticipated this" friction20:21:34
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7 Aug 2022
@tpw_rules:matrix.orgtpw_ruleswhat i'm saying is i wonder if the reference should be introduced in more practical terms first. 00:20:18
@tpw_rules:matrix.orgtpw_rulesi.e. swap the concrete model and the abstract model in the toc00:20:43
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8 Aug 2022
@fricklerhandwerk:matrix.orgfricklerhandwerk

John Ericson: We've extensively talked about this in the course of developing the architecture docs. I have a clear opinion on this, but it's kind of hard to formulate briefly.

  1. it's a trade-off between brevity/clarity, length, and completeness
  2. it's a trade-off in terms of invested effort
  3. the ultimate goal in this scope is to help people understand Nix enough to make best use of it

writing even the part that got merged and commented out again took weeks of wall-clock time, and many full work days user time. I think we struck a very good balance so far, because the contents are very specific to Nix while still introducing an idea of the overarching theme, and still got it brief enough for people to consume in an afternoon, and precise enough to get back for details.

I agree that there is a meta-topic about content-addressing, immutability, and theory of computaton, but I deem it very much out of scope for Nix documentation. It is not the place to introduce or explain any of that. If there were a reference on that, we could gladly mention it as an alternative venue to understanding Nix, but it will not be helpful for the vast majority of software developers who just want do get their job done - our targeted audience! Just as I think it was (and still is, my PR to change that is yet to be merged) a big mistake trying to explain Nix in terms of Haskell to an audience that on average struggles to understand Haskell to an even greater extent. It may be true that Nix appears like a special case of something more general to Haskellers, it is a minority that does not need help anyway.

So, I would prefer to stick to Nix specifics and only keep hinting at the bigger picture, because Nix works right now.

10:42:20
@Ericson2314:matrix.orgJohn Ericson fricklerhandwerk: So for me the downsides are clear but narrow 12:24:52
@Ericson2314:matrix.orgJohn Ericson

it's a trade-off between brevity/clarity, length, and completeness

I reference needs to be complete

12:25:02
@Ericson2314:matrix.orgJohn Ericson *

it's a trade-off between brevity/clarity, length, and completeness

A reference needs to be complete

12:25:07
@Ericson2314:matrix.orgJohn EricsonTrading completeness for anything else in a reference I think is basically pandering12:25:25

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