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Nix Documentation

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Discussion about documentation improvements around the Nix ecosystem88 Servers

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2 Jul 2024
@johannes.kirschbauer:scs.ems.hostJohannes Kirschbauer @hsjobeki
In reply to @fricklerhandwerk:matrix.org
Overall it's not that bad in terms of size, looks pretty mechanical.
Yeah just spent some hours sundays to go through all of those little things
16:31:17
@djacu:matrix.orgdjacu
In reply to @johannes.kirschbauer:scs.ems.host
djacu: no the RFC is not strict in those terms. danielsidhion and me worked on what is more like conventions. There are other files in lib that use commonmark already in comments for reference

Ah okay. I saw things like this and wasn't sure.

# Inputs

    `f`
    : 1\. Function argument

I do like it though!

17:28:37
4 Jul 2024
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5 Jul 2024
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@sliedes:hacklab.fiSami Liedes joined the room.23:03:10
@sliedes:hacklab.fiSami Liedes

Hey. I'm a new NixOS user, already trying to heavily use the documentation. :) Someone pointed out to me that there's two wikis, with a difference. I've been looking at the NixOS manual, but had missed at least this.

Now I'm looking for glossaries. Is this the best we have? https://nix.dev/manual/nix/2.23/glossary.html#gloss-store-derivation

I could perhaps contribute (as in I can make a PR) by... Hm. My initial idea would be to at least

  1. Sort it; now it's hard to find anything in it
  2. I actually think that page could use a TOC. Or some kind of a layout change, I'm not sure. Now if I want to find something on it, my best bet is to do a search in browser, and that hits other mentions of the word.

Also I feel it's missing quite a few pieces of terminology that I've run into a lot the past few days. I think at least module, option, store, package, flake, home manager.

Then I don't know what of those are Nix and what are NixOS. Is there a hard split between "Nix documentation" and "NixOS documentation"? (Though if we expect a newcomer to know which manual to look in, maybe that's a problem in itself?)

23:11:29
@sliedes:hacklab.fiSami Liedes *

Hey. I'm a new NixOS user, already trying to heavily use the documentation. :) Someone pointed out to me that there's two wikis, with a difference. I've been looking at the NixOS manual, but had missed at least this.

Now I'm looking for glossaries. Is this the best we have? https://nix.dev/manual/nix/2.23/glossary.html#gloss-store-derivation

I could perhaps contribute (as in I can make a PR) by... Hm. My initial idea would be to at least

  1. Sort it; now it's hard to find anything in it
  2. I actually think that page could use a TOC. Or some kind of a layout change, I'm not sure. Now if I want to find something on it, my best bet is to do a search in browser, and that hits other mentions of the word.

Also I feel it's missing quite a few pieces of terminology that I've run into a lot the past few days. I think at least module, option, store, package, generation, flake, home manager.

Then I don't know what of those are Nix and what are NixOS. Is there a hard split between "Nix documentation" and "NixOS documentation"? (Though if we expect a newcomer to know which manual to look in, maybe that's a problem in itself?)

23:14:56
@sliedes:hacklab.fiSami Liedes *

Hey. I'm a new NixOS user, already trying to heavily use the documentation. :) Someone pointed out to me that there's two wikis, with a difference. I've been looking at the NixOS manual, but had missed at least this.

Now I'm looking for glossaries. Is this the best we have? https://nix.dev/manual/nix/2.23/glossary.html#gloss-store-derivation

I could perhaps contribute (as in I can make a PR) by... Hm. My initial idea would be to at least

  1. Sort it; now it's hard to find anything in it
  2. I actually think that page could use a TOC. Or some kind of a layout change, I'm not sure. Now if I want to find something on it, my best bet is to do a search in browser, and that hits other mentions of the word.

Also I feel it's missing quite a few pieces of terminology that I've run into a lot the past few days. I think at least module, option, store, package, generation, channel, flake, home manager.

Then I don't know what of those are Nix and what are NixOS. Is there a hard split between "Nix documentation" and "NixOS documentation"? (Though if we expect a newcomer to know which manual to look in, maybe that's a problem in itself?)

23:18:38
@sliedes:hacklab.fiSami LiedesWhen trying to get stuff to work, I've ran a lot into something like "here's a flake you can use" or "if you use home manager, you can do this". I have been able to figure out that I don't use home manager, and perhaps should wait until I'm a bit more comfortable with Nix. The flake thing is a bit more obscure to me. It seems to be either an extension of the nix command, external repositories for Nix packages (derivations?), or some overarching system to enable all of the above that goes above configuration.nix. :D (Not looking for an explanation of what it is here, but trying to convey the confusion!)23:21:20
6 Jul 2024
@fricklerhandwerk:matrix.orgfricklerhandwerk Hi Sami Liedes and welcome to the community! We’ve spent quite some effort to make the first steps with Nix smooth and orient people in the ecosystem. NixOS is only one - of course important - part of that, and despite it’s great benefits it can be considered an advanced use case. 10:12:23
@fricklerhandwerk:matrix.orgfricklerhandwerkHere’s a concise overview of all the big things that have Nix in their name: https://nix.dev/reference/glossary10:12:39
@fricklerhandwerk:matrix.orgfricklerhandwerk

Each of those things has a reference manual, all of them linked in nix.dev. The reference manuals are supposed to only show what’s there, with a few examples, while nix.dev is for tutorials and guides. The separation is not as clean in reality, because there are a lot of pieces to the puzzle, and the time people spent so far was not enough to untangle everything.

Home Manager is unfortunately not listed there yet, and the only reason is that no one got to explain, within the narrative arc we’re building, which role it plays and how to start out.

10:17:26
@fricklerhandwerk:matrix.orgfricklerhandwerkThere's the official, actively maintained NixOS wiki at wiki.nixos.org. Together with the NixOS reference manual is where most NixOS documentation lives. But it's very thin altogether, so it should be easy to add useful things as you find them.10:23:28
@fricklerhandwerk:matrix.orgfricklerhandwerkNixOS documentation does not have all that many helping hands, and the user-facing tools are not in great shape, in my opinion. So there are still endless misconceptions implanted into beginners' minds. If you have the time to dig into it and read the source code, I'm there to answer any questions you may encounter, or point you to better places where to ask them.10:25:31
@fricklerhandwerk:matrix.orgfricklerhandwerkAs for flakes, here's an overview: https://nix.dev/concepts/flakes10:26:18
@fricklerhandwerk:matrix.orgfricklerhandwerkThe Nix manual's glossary is only about Nix concepts. Modules, options, packages are Nixpkgs things, but the Nixpkgs manual doesn't have a glossary yet - I'd help getting a first attempt merged! Home Manager has its own documentation (without a glossary): https://nix-community.github.io/home-manager/10:28:53
@fricklerhandwerk:matrix.orgfricklerhandwerkAs for overall structure and discoverability.. yes, that's still an issue. Many people come to the ecosystem through NixOS, but there's really no one maintaining the user experience there. I've been taking things from the bottom up for the past two years, guiding people who start with Nix on an existing system, and I think things have improved. But NixOS just has very different requirements, and one needs to think it through and find a place where people can go through that journey. These things are up for grabs, so if you really want to change that and show up consistently, you can take the lead on that.10:32:40
@sliedes:hacklab.fiSami LiedesThanks for the very good explanation :)13:23:44
7 Jul 2024
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8 Jul 2024
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9 Jul 2024
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10 Jul 2024
@enn_:matrix.orgenn_
In reply to @proofconstruction:matrix.org
Welcome! For suggestions, typically they are made here, in a GitHub Issue, or by implementing the change and making a pull request to the appropriate repository. In all cases there will be an associated thread of comments and follow up suggestions.
It never fails to surprise me how time flies. This comment is also an attempt to understand how badly I'll spam the main channel when I comment in this thread...
21:34:57
@enn_:matrix.orgenn_Download nix-docs-proposal.md21:37:41
@enn_:matrix.orgenn_
In reply to @enn_:matrix.org
It never fails to surprise me how time flies. This comment is also an attempt to understand how badly I'll spam the main channel when I comment in this thread...
clearly in no particular rush from my side 😅 I've attached a brief proposal relating to nix docs for consideration. Am happy to come along to an office hours session if that is useful / appropriate, or just receive feedback here, whatever works 🙂
21:39:27
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11 Jul 2024
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