| 5 Aug 2022 |
 K900 | FWIW, I do think getting more people from the Nixpkgs side involved in Nix development (and vice versa) would be great for both sides, but I'm not really aware of the previous issues so I'll just stay out of this conversation | 14:23:28 |
 profpatsch | Features like __impure or similar could be good to have in nixpkgs, but if no backwards compatibilty guarantees are defined, they might just happen by removing nix-build et al. | 14:23:45 |
| profpatsch | So it’s in the interest of the nixpkgs side of things to define what is expected | 14:24:13 |
 mkaito | Fairly obvious, but has this been brought up on the nix issue tracker for actual discussion? | 14:24:55 |
| profpatsch | Even without “grievances” (it’s a software project, nobody here did anybody wrong), just having formally defined borders is a good step towards a healthy project | 14:25:07 |
| profpatsch | See e.g. Rust, which has a lot of formally defined structure and procedures | 14:25:24 |
 infinisil | Yeah, I think it's very important to have backwards compat guarantees. Requiring features to be stable for 2 years sounds reasonable. It will also allow people with up to two year old NixOS installations to update to the latest one in a single step | 14:25:48 |
| profpatsch | So it’s perfectly reasonable to focus on e.g. user experience for nixpkgs usage, even if that means putting some maintenance burden on nix development | 14:25:59 |
| mkaito | I'm fine with the idea of requiring work from Nix to make things in nixpkgs possible or easier, of course. | 14:26:41 |
| profpatsch | chris: The nix issue tracker currently has 1500 issues open, with only 2500 closed, so I personally don’t see it as the place. Maybe the Discourse. | 14:26:58 |
| mkaito | the number is meaningless IMO | 14:27:17 |
| profpatsch | I could open an issue, but the chance is that it would just be ignored. If the Nixpkgs Arch team made a statement of intent, that could not just be ignored. | 14:28:08 |
| profpatsch | … Which is the entire reason for a team like that to exist imho | 14:28:40 |
| mkaito | Either works. If we want the team to make a statement, we'll have to wait until we get to that point in the schedule (is __impure even on the schedule?) and reach formal consensus. You can also open the issue yourself. We'll figure out a way for it to not be ignored. We've all learned a lot since the 2.4 release. | 14:29:25 |
| mkaito | Work on Nix itself might be explicitly out of scope for the team, but as I said above, and will stubbornly repeat until your ears fall off, "we are nix". We're all in this together, like it or not. | 14:30:27 |
| profpatsch | That’s good to hear. | 14:30:47 |
| profpatsch | Well, I don’t think that’s entirely true (e.g. what is “it”? For many people it’s just setting up a nice environment and then doing something else) | 14:31:32 |
| mkaito | "it" is the nix ecosystem, at least in my mind | 14:31:49 |
| mkaito | nixpkgs is a major player in "it", obviously | 14:32:08 |
| profpatsch | I’d start by asking what the main use-cases for nixpkgs are. And then building some Personas, UX design style | 14:32:49 |
| profpatsch | e.g. “Will works for corp X and has a python dev environment. Margaret likes to merge nixpkgs Issues in her free time” | 14:33:19 |
| mkaito | We should put that on the agenda for next week. Sounds much more important than deconstructing mkDerivation IMHO | 14:33:24 |
| profpatsch | Once there is a good set of those, one can figure out what their specific pain points are | 14:33:37 |
| profpatsch | “Bertha just runs NixOS in a pretty default config on her system and does not program at all” | 14:35:34 |
 Alyssa Ross | I am inclined to suggest there should be a Nix/Nixpkgs sync meeting | 14:36:20 |
| 6 Aug 2022 |
|  Ronny joined the room. | 12:33:23 |
|  wentasah joined the room. | 22:15:29 |
 tomberek | In reply to @qyliss:fairydust.space
As a Nixpkgs developer, I do not feel represented or listened to by the Nix developers. I tihnk profpatsch feels the same way. I consider myself a Nix developer. Part of the reason I’m here is to ensure some cross-ecosystem consistency and coordination. I’ve done a few interview sessions with people to try to truly grok their point of view. I’d be happy to do that with either profspatsch or yourself. | 23:20:11 |
| 7 Aug 2022 |
|  Sridhar Ratnakumar joined the room. | 13:36:53 |
|  sterni joined the room. | 14:18:30 |
