| 2 Aug 2022 |
 profpatsch | Something like chez scheme could e.g. drop you in a debugger that listens on a TCP port | 14:13:44 |
 infinisil | Nix is not a general purpose language | 14:13:49 |
| profpatsch | which you can access from outside the builder | 14:13:53 |
| profpatsch | (provided nix allows it) | 14:14:03 |
| profpatsch | I think there was a hack like that for stdenv bash somewhere | 14:14:24 |
| profpatsch | (Iām thinking more people would write low level plumbing if the stdenv was composable and accessible, so dev experience is an important point to think about) | 14:15:20 |
 j-k | if like guix there's a spin-off nix-like project that uses lua at all levels should it be called nyx or just nix? š
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nix_(moon) | 14:19:24 |
 Wanja Hentze | I think the big momentum point for bash is not even "everyone has it in their supply chain already" but "everyone kinda half-knows it already" | 14:50:13 |
| Wanja Hentze | from my personal experience, having a derivation with very little nix in it abut with a big ol' shell script in a string literal leads to something that people inexperienced with nix may feel they can work with at least a little bit | 14:52:04 |
| Wanja Hentze | that's an awkard sentence, sorry | 14:52:15 |
| Wanja Hentze | what I'm saying is: the bash parts of our derivations (where I work) are the ones that non-nix-nerds are actually confident touching | 14:52:50 |
| Wanja Hentze | that being said, there is hardly a day where I don't curse bash to hell for its idiotic parts | 14:54:07 |
| j-k | the idea with oil is for the most part it's the same as bash & the fancy oil features is what we would use under the hood in stdenv to replace/improve phases so at the top it'd probably look pretty similar | 14:54:32 |
| Wanja Hentze | heck, even execline kinda looks shell-y enough where it might work | 14:55:10 |
| Wanja Hentze | in my experience, people readily put up with having to write RUN build.sh foo bar | 14:55:39 |
| Wanja Hentze | they will less readily put up with having to write (run "build.sh" ("foo" bar")) or something | 14:56:06 |
| Wanja Hentze | this is extremely superficial, I'm aware. but we're already making people learn one weird new syntax | 14:56:42 |
| Wanja Hentze | * this is extremely superficial, I'm aware. but we're already making people learn one weird new syntax (nix) | 14:57:22 |
| Wanja Hentze | * this is extremely superficial, I'm aware. but we're already making people learn one weird new syntax (nix), about which people complain to no end | 14:57:34 |
| Wanja Hentze | and while I'm personally very familiar with sexprs, I think they represent "weird new syntax" for most folks | 14:58:17 |
| infinisil | Currently listening to the Summer of Nix live talk "The Architecture and History of Nixpkgs" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKgHazs3AMw | 15:21:37 |
| infinisil | Not that much about nixpkgs architecture as of yet thouggh | 15:22:12 |
|  a-kenji joined the room. | 15:53:13 |
|  denna joined the room. | 15:54:15 |
|  ctem joined the room. | 16:12:16 |
| Wanja Hentze | In reply to @infinisil:matrix.org
Currently listening to the Summer of Nix live talk "The Architecture and History of Nixpkgs" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKgHazs3AMw the question about localization somebody just asked is weird to me | 16:25:25 |
| Wanja Hentze | isn't the software packaged by nixpkgs localized already? | 16:25:46 |
| infinisil | I'm guessing it's localization of e.g. meta.description, NixOS option descriptions, eval error messages, etc. | 16:26:25 |
| infinisil | That's about the most nixpkgs could do | 16:26:41 |
| Wanja Hentze | and maybe the output of some scripts that are original in nixpkgs? | 16:27:19 |
