| 5 Aug 2022 |
 K900 | As kind of an outside person, or at least a rather new contributor, it definitely feels like the communication has broken down | 12:39:22 |
| K900 | Between the Nixpkgs contributors and the Nix contributors that is | 12:39:35 |
|  Bryan Honof joined the room. | 13:13:57 |
 mkaito | Well if that's how we feel, then that's the first problem we should be tackling. If we go into this with an "us versus them" mentality and resentment from the outset, we might as well not bother with anything we said we want to try. | 13:51:42 |
| mkaito | We are Nix. All of us. If that's not true, then we start there. | 13:52:13 |
 infinisil | While I think it's important to fix that, I don't think this team is the right one to tackle that | 13:53:16 |
| mkaito | Your call | 13:54:15 |
| mkaito | But if this is how we plan to conduct things here, I'm afraid I don't have the time or patience to put up with petty grievances and resentment. | 13:54:58 |
| mkaito | Please keep that in mind when reviewing my application | 13:55:14 |
| infinisil | I guess if we discuss the idea of splitting up nixpkgs this could become relevant for this team | 13:58:37 |
| infinisil | Since flakes will be an option | 13:58:49 |
| infinisil | But I think for now let's not focus on that, let's try to assume the current stable Nix and focus on improvements we can do to nixpkgs with just that | 13:59:26 |
| infinisil | I'd be on board with an RFC to formalize a 2 year stabilization period for Nix versions in nixpkgs though, sounds like a good idea | 13:59:56 |
 j-k | without hearing the "grievances", dismissing them as "petty" is not productive. The whole point of this group is to identify painpoints and try resolve them.
you're swapping between wanting to resolve the us & them divide but also playing into it | 14:04:09 |
| mkaito | I don't see the point in pushing blame around | 14:06:58 |
| mkaito | Grievances become petty when you stop wanting to do anything about resolving them and you only ever talk about the grievances themselves. Don't let that happen, and I won't complain. If there are problem, we should try to seek solutions. I don't want us to spend our limited time complaining about how "the nix team" has wronged us without also talking about how we can stop talking about "the nix team" and instead start talking about "us" and how to work together. | 14:09:42 |
| mkaito | This does not play into them/us, it strictly opposes it. | 14:10:23 |
 Alyssa Ross | The fact that this is still a problem isn't for lack of trying. | 14:11:09 |
| mkaito | I know, but if all we have to say now is that we're done trying, then why are we even here? | 14:11:26 |
| mkaito | Let's keep trying. | 14:11:48 |
| Alyssa Ross | I'm mostly still here because I still believe in Nixpkgs, and I hope an alteranitve Nix implementation comes along. | 14:11:54 |
| Alyssa Ross | I'm generally happy to keep trying, but I'm out of ideas. | 14:12:04 |
| Alyssa Ross | If we want to try to come up with new ideas, I'm all ears. | 14:12:30 |
| Alyssa Ross | (Right now I'm being more open about this than I usually would be, in the interest of putting everything on the table and trying to work towards a solution.) | 14:14:01 |
| mkaito | I have my own grievances with "the nixpkgs people". I have set them aside, and am here in order to put my money where my mouth is. I expect everyone to be able to do similarly. Otherwise, this is all doomed. | 14:14:41 |
| mkaito | I expect us to be the change we want to see, and to improve the health of nixpkgs going forward. But if we're just going to complain about what has gone wrong before, that's not going to happen. That's all I have to say. | 14:15:36 |
| infinisil | I think we're going a bit off the rails here | 14:16:01 |
 profpatsch | chris: You asked for things people think a nixpkgs Arch team should solve, and in my opinion being defensive against nix upstream is one of the most important things. | 14:16:02 |
| Alyssa Ross | I'm not sure there's been much complaining about what has gone wrong before | 14:16:04 |
| Alyssa Ross | The conversation that started this was about a feature that was just implemented, unless I'm misunderstanding. | 14:16:25 |
